Great article

Discuss the MVC hoops season here.

Re: Great article

Postby Jsnhbe1Birds » June 3rd, 2017, 4:57 pm

In other news mark adams moonlights as rambler63. I'm sorry mark.
Jsnhbe1Birds
MVC Hall Of Famer
MVC Hall Of Famer
 
Posts: 1061
Joined: April 10th, 2017, 4:20 pm

Re: Great article

Sponsor

Sponsor
 

Re: Great article

Postby uniftw » June 5th, 2017, 10:34 am

Mark Adams is well intentioned, but holy s*** he is a puppy with a bone.

Means well, but will actually turn many against mid-majors with how over the top/talk downish he is to non-midmajors.
uniftw
MVC Hall Of Famer
MVC Hall Of Famer
 
Posts: 2408
Joined: January 20th, 2011, 9:01 pm

Re: Great article

Postby uniguy » June 6th, 2017, 4:46 pm

My immediate takeaways from this post.

1.) More evidence that Grand Canyon is going places. A 4 million dollar budget in the WAC? If GCU and NMSU end up in the Horizon, we might be looking up at that league rather than down. That said, I would think the WCC would be GCU's ideal landing spot from their perspective (or failing that the Big West), and NMSU would be immediately gone if they found a home for their football team.

2.) Oral Roberts' budget would fit right in with our league's profile. They are a perfect fit geographically (partner with Mo State) and resources wise. It is just too bad they aren't very good. If they were good they'd be a great choice to add along with Murray. Also pleasantly surprised at how much Little Rock spends, for those that consider them a candidate.

3.) I am surprised Louisville has the 2nd biggest basketball budget in the nation.

4.) Kentucky's budget alone is more than 75% of the entire MVC combined.

5.) UNI spends exactly $32 more than Evansville. That's $32 well spent.
uniguy
MVC Role Player
MVC Role Player
 
Posts: 193
Joined: May 14th, 2017, 8:20 pm

Re: Great article

Postby uniftw » June 6th, 2017, 5:18 pm

Budgets should be looked at closer than just total number. A perfect example is UNI/Evansville.

Essentially out budgets are exactly the same. Budgets are everything involved with the program - including scholarship costs.

Take tuition out of the budget and you start to really see what the budget is.

UEs fees covered when a scholarship is offered is just shy of $50,000 per person. https://www.evansville.edu/financialaid/cost.cfm

UNI's would be just over $17,000 per person.
https://tuition.uni.edu/17-18-undergrad ... s-overview

That means $650,000 of UEs budget is tied up in scholarships compared to $221,000. That means, even though the two budgets are identical UNI is spending $449,000 more on actual basketball related items than UE.

Same situation at Bradley. They have a budget of 3.1m, but about $575,000 is tied up in tuition. It'd be real interesting to see budgets, minus tuition.

Out of those three - the three largest - the budgets go to

1. UNI 2.7m
2. BU - 2.5M
3. UE - 2.25M

This is where GCU gets interesting. Their tuition is essentially identical to UNI. Meaning they still spend about 3.7m on basketball related items. What gets interesting in programs in conferences like the WAC is travel. The travel costs added to a budget in the WAC is crazy. GCU is flying to Bakersfield, CA, Las Cruses, NM, Kansas City, MO, Seattle, WA, Chicago, IL and Edinburgh, TX for conferences games. That will inflate a budget pretty quick. Recruiting budgets shoot up pretty quick in that situation.

Budgets are interesting to actually study
uniftw
MVC Hall Of Famer
MVC Hall Of Famer
 
Posts: 2408
Joined: January 20th, 2011, 9:01 pm

Re: Great article

Postby uniftw » June 6th, 2017, 5:52 pm

To further show it

Total basketball budgets
BU - 3,128,419
UNI - 2,899,699
UE - 2,899,667
LUC - 2,745,553
VALPO - 2,666,213
DU - 2,472,212
ISUR - 2,452,961
MSU - 2,279,917
SIU - 2,241,413
ISUB - 1,832,975


Tution costs per school - tuition/room/etc.. that a scholarship would cover. For state schools I did a 50/50 average in state/out of state. The second number is the number I used to get the numbers. 13 of each of the numbers
LUC - 728,000 - 56,000
VALPO - 663,000 - 51,000
UE - 650,000 - 50,000
DU - 624,000 - 48,000
BU - 559,000 - 43,000
SIU - 416,000 - 32,000
ISUB - 338,000 - 26,000
MSU - 325,000 - 25,000
UNI - 299,000 - 23,000
ISUR - 273,000 - 21,000

"True" budgets
UNI - 2,600,699
BU - 2,569,419
UE - 2,249,667
ISUR - 2,179,961
LUC - 2,017,553
VALPO - 2,003,213
MSU - 1,954,917
DU - 1,848,212
SIU - 1,825,413
ISUB - 1,494,975


The gap between the privates/public closes, and in some cases swings the other way. Basically when it comes to basketball spending it's UNI, Bradley and then everyone else.....and then Indiana State
uniftw
MVC Hall Of Famer
MVC Hall Of Famer
 
Posts: 2408
Joined: January 20th, 2011, 9:01 pm

Re: Great article

Postby uniguy » June 6th, 2017, 9:14 pm

Thats a good point. Although you could make the argument that UNIs budget is artificially high due to Jakes salary since it is partially donor funded. If he left a new coach wouldn't get that much.
uniguy
MVC Role Player
MVC Role Player
 
Posts: 193
Joined: May 14th, 2017, 8:20 pm

Re: Great article

Postby UEACES80 » June 7th, 2017, 5:24 am

Also don't forget some schools pay rent for the venue they use. Lots of apples, pineapples and oranges.
User avatar
UEACES80
MVC starter
MVC starter
 
Posts: 212
Joined: March 6th, 2015, 10:25 pm

Re: Great article

Postby mule » June 7th, 2017, 7:43 am

uniguy wrote:Thats a good point. Although you could make the argument that UNIs budget is artificially high due to Jakes salary since it is partially donor funded. If he left a new coach wouldn't get that much.

Wouldn't being funded by donors actually make the budget lower than if the school paid the whole amount?
:huh:
mule
MVC Role Player
MVC Role Player
 
Posts: 132
Joined: September 29th, 2016, 6:50 am

Re: Great article

Postby uniftw » June 7th, 2017, 7:44 am

uniguy wrote:Thats a good point. Although you could make the argument that UNIs budget is artificially high due to Jakes salary since it is partially donor funded. If he left a new coach wouldn't get that much.

Jake's is fully funded through private donors, AFAIK. To some extent that's a valid point. However, unlike tuition it is basketball specific funding. It is funding that our athletic department has mad a point to get and put towards the program. It's not UNI's fault no one else left in this conference can/does do the same. I would also add that the next coach won't see a significant/if any drop from where Jake is now. Gone are the 300-500K base pay days at UNI. Here to stay are the 750-850k base pay plus media and other bonuses pushing to over a million. The donors are there to make sure that the best replacement coach, whenever that time comes, is found and paid for.

The interesting thing to me is if facility rental should* be taken out of the spending. In the case of Evansville that is another $345,000 for the year that those numbers are from (based on reported numbers for what it costs to rent the Ford Center from posts on this board). This year it is a minimum of $285,000, and that will go up if they host a CBI/CIT game. I would argue that is artificially inflating budget numbers for those schools as well to some extent. Yes, it's basketball specific spending. It's basketball specific funding only because UE isn't/wasn't willing to fund their own building that they owned and control. On top of paying ~300K per year just to be able to play home games, UE is losing out on any revenue from events that could be brought in. UNI's basketball arena and football stadium bring in millions of dollars a year to the university. We also don't know how UNI splits McLeod Center operations costs between mens basketball, womens basketball, volleyball and general athletic department expenses. Without rental fees (and I don't know what the other schools pay per year/game) UE falls to about 1.9m in basketball specific funding. Which still confuses me with where that money is going - especially if the rumored salary for Marty is actually where the rumor puts it. UE may have the single worst ROI in the conference. Bradley is probably worse given their last 8 years, or so. However, they still have a S16 banner, multiple other NCAA trips, NITs, etc... to their name. UE has 1 NCAA trip, no NCAA wins, and no other real post season success - don't give me this CIT champion crap either.

Add $345,000 to UNI's budget and they have the largest in the conference, when including the tuition difference between Bradley and UNI.

Raw budget numbers are neat to talk about, but getting down to what is truely basketball spending is what makes it fun/worth while to talk about. Yes, there are apple/oranges in some cases for numbers - facility rental being one.
uniftw
MVC Hall Of Famer
MVC Hall Of Famer
 
Posts: 2408
Joined: January 20th, 2011, 9:01 pm

Re: Great article

Postby Make MVC Great Again » June 7th, 2017, 7:52 am

Adams need to start a website or something.

Reading something like that on Facebook makes it seem amateur.
Make MVC Great Again
MVC Role Player
MVC Role Player
 
Posts: 131
Joined: May 8th, 2017, 1:18 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Missouri Valley Conference Basketball

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AcesAces, Birdfan2018, Google [Bot] and 60 guests