Shockers Take One Final Look Back

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Re: Shockers Take One Final Look Back

Postby Rambler63 » June 29th, 2017, 7:58 pm

I noticed that one of the memorable games was WSU's defeat of #1 Cincinnati in 1963. It wasn't a conference game, but WSU also beat #3 Loyola IN CHICAGO on the last day of the regular season.

Here's how I wrote it in the draft of the book I wrote about Loyola's 1963 National Championship:

Saturday, March 2, 1963 vs. Wichita State at Chicago Stadium

The final game of the regular season pitted #8 Wichita State vs. #3 Loyola in the first game of a Chicago Stadium doubleheader, followed by a contest between Bradley and Notre Dame. Future Hall of Fame Coach Ralph Miller’s aptly-named Shockers had earned a place in the AP Top 10 with a stunning one-point victory over #1 Cincinnati a week and a half earlier, ending Cincinnati’s 37-game winning streak and hopes for an undefeated season. But Wichita had also notched wins against #4 Arizona State, and #5 Ohio State. Coming into the game at 18-7, Wichita was ticketed for the top seed in the NIT.

The Shockers were led by 6’7” junior All-American Dave “The Rave” Stallworth and 6’10” sophomore center Nate Bowman. Both were future first round NBA draft picks, and Stallworth picked up a championship ring as a member of the 1969-70 New York Knicks.

With a packed house of 18,778 screaming fans, undersized Loyola traded baskets with the Shockers in the first half. The Ramblers had 6’2” Jerry Harkness giving away five inches on Stallworth, and 6’7” center Les Hunter matched against the 6’10” Bowman. In the backcourt, however, the Ramblers appeared to have the upper hand with superior scoring from Ron Miller and John Egan. When the buzzer sounded at halftime, the Shockers held a 30-28 lead over the Ramblers in a contest that certainly looked to go down to the final seconds—if the Ramblers could stay out of foul trouble.

The second half began with the two teams trading baskets to tie the score five times. But when Vic Rouse made two baskets and Miller added another, Loyola took a 44-38 lead. After a long-range bomb from Egan just a few seconds later, Loyola grabbed their biggest lead of the game at 49-41. But the Shockers answered right back with a 10-2 run to tie the game at 51-all.

Just minutes later, Hunter fouled out with 6:27 left to play, and half a minute later Rouse joined him on the bench with his fifth foul. Instead of caving in, the Ramblers fought harder and actually took a 68-66 advantage with 2:10 remaining on a basket by Miller and a free throw from Hunter’s replacement, Chuck Wood.

Then came the play that outraged Ramblers fans. “Ernie Moore was a little fast guard,” Egan recalls. “We pressed full court, so after watching him the whole game, you sort of get an idea as to what his m.o. is. [I know that] he is going to fake [left], and come back to his right. So he comes and he does the left fake, and I fake going for the fake, and just wait for him. And he comes right into me. There’s no question in my mind that it’s a charge. Certainly at home, it’s a charge. And they call a foul on me at home. I was genuinely shocked-- not so much that it was obvious because all charge calls are hard—but that it was late in the season, we’re ranked #3 in the country, and the call came at home. I was making my free throws that night, and I knew that if I got to the line we would have won the game. And then the crowd erupted.”

Moore made his free throws, and Wichita converted on two more free throws in the final minute to seal the 73-72 victory.

According to the Chicago Tribune, as the Shockers jubilantly ran off the court at the buzzer, a few Loyola fans went charging onto the court “apparently trying to fight the winners.” Roy Damer, the Tribune’s beat writer, wrote that Loyola fans scuffled with the Andy Frain ushers for a few seconds before order was restored. There was no mention of the alleged tussle in any of the other Chicago newspapers.

“I was at that game, and I don’t remember that,” said James Hackett, a Loyola senior at the time. “I remember that it was a controversial finish, but I can’t remember any kind of tussle or melee, just disappointment.”

Wichita State earned a 29-26 advantage at the foul line—with five of those chances coming in the final two minutes of the game—but the Shockers won by thoroughly dominating Loyola on the backboards. The Shockers out-rebounded the Ramblers, the third-best rebounding team in the nation, 52-38.

Stallworth led all scorers with 28 points, and Bowman added 11 points for the Shockers to go with his game-high 13 rebounds. Harkness led the Ramblers with 17 points, and Miller led Loyola with 10 boards.

In the AP poll released on the Tuesday following the loss to Wichita State, the Ramblers fell to their lowest ranking of the year-- #5—behind Arizona State, Ohio State, Duke, and Cincinnati. Wichita State’s road win against the Ramblers had vaulted them into the #6 spot.


The National Championship final was a match between Cincinnati and Loyola, who I believe had only three losses between them with two of them coming against WSU.
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Re: Shockers Take One Final Look Back

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Re: Shockers Take One Final Look Back

Postby Veritas » June 29th, 2017, 8:26 pm

Rambler63 wrote:I noticed that one of the memorable games was WSU's defeat of #1 Cincinnati in 1963. It wasn't a conference game, but WSU also beat #3 Loyola IN CHICAGO on the last day of the regular season.

Here's how I wrote it in the draft of the book I wrote about Loyola's 1963 National Championship:

Saturday, March 2, 1963 vs. Wichita State at Chicago Stadium

The final game of the regular season pitted #8 Wichita State vs. #3 Loyola in the first game of a Chicago Stadium doubleheader, followed by a contest between Bradley and Notre Dame. Future Hall of Fame Coach Ralph Miller’s aptly-named Shockers had earned a place in the AP Top 10 with a stunning one-point victory over #1 Cincinnati a week and a half earlier, ending Cincinnati’s 37-game winning streak and hopes for an undefeated season. But Wichita had also notched wins against #4 Arizona State, and #5 Ohio State. Coming into the game at 18-7, Wichita was ticketed for the top seed in the NIT.

The Shockers were led by 6’7” junior All-American Dave “The Rave” Stallworth and 6’10” sophomore center Nate Bowman. Both were future first round NBA draft picks, and Stallworth picked up a championship ring as a member of the 1969-70 New York Knicks.

With a packed house of 18,778 screaming fans, undersized Loyola traded baskets with the Shockers in the first half. The Ramblers had 6’2” Jerry Harkness giving away five inches on Stallworth, and 6’7” center Les Hunter matched against the 6’10” Bowman. In the backcourt, however, the Ramblers appeared to have the upper hand with superior scoring from Ron Miller and John Egan. When the buzzer sounded at halftime, the Shockers held a 30-28 lead over the Ramblers in a contest that certainly looked to go down to the final seconds—if the Ramblers could stay out of foul trouble.

The second half began with the two teams trading baskets to tie the score five times. But when Vic Rouse made two baskets and Miller added another, Loyola took a 44-38 lead. After a long-range bomb from Egan just a few seconds later, Loyola grabbed their biggest lead of the game at 49-41. But the Shockers answered right back with a 10-2 run to tie the game at 51-all.

Just minutes later, Hunter fouled out with 6:27 left to play, and half a minute later Rouse joined him on the bench with his fifth foul. Instead of caving in, the Ramblers fought harder and actually took a 68-66 advantage with 2:10 remaining on a basket by Miller and a free throw from Hunter’s replacement, Chuck Wood.

Then came the play that outraged Ramblers fans. “Ernie Moore was a little fast guard,” Egan recalls. “We pressed full court, so after watching him the whole game, you sort of get an idea as to what his m.o. is. [I know that] he is going to fake [left], and come back to his right. So he comes and he does the left fake, and I fake going for the fake, and just wait for him. And he comes right into me. There’s no question in my mind that it’s a charge. Certainly at home, it’s a charge. And they call a foul on me at home. I was genuinely shocked-- not so much that it was obvious because all charge calls are hard—but that it was late in the season, we’re ranked #3 in the country, and the call came at home. I was making my free throws that night, and I knew that if I got to the line we would have won the game. And then the crowd erupted.”

Moore made his free throws, and Wichita converted on two more free throws in the final minute to seal the 73-72 victory.

According to the Chicago Tribune, as the Shockers jubilantly ran off the court at the buzzer, a few Loyola fans went charging onto the court “apparently trying to fight the winners.” Roy Damer, the Tribune’s beat writer, wrote that Loyola fans scuffled with the Andy Frain ushers for a few seconds before order was restored. There was no mention of the alleged tussle in any of the other Chicago newspapers.

“I was at that game, and I don’t remember that,” said James Hackett, a Loyola senior at the time. “I remember that it was a controversial finish, but I can’t remember any kind of tussle or melee, just disappointment.”

Wichita State earned a 29-26 advantage at the foul line—with five of those chances coming in the final two minutes of the game—but the Shockers won by thoroughly dominating Loyola on the backboards. The Shockers out-rebounded the Ramblers, the third-best rebounding team in the nation, 52-38.

Stallworth led all scorers with 28 points, and Bowman added 11 points for the Shockers to go with his game-high 13 rebounds. Harkness led the Ramblers with 17 points, and Miller led Loyola with 10 boards.

In the AP poll released on the Tuesday following the loss to Wichita State, the Ramblers fell to their lowest ranking of the year-- #5—behind Arizona State, Ohio State, Duke, and Cincinnati. Wichita State’s road win against the Ramblers had vaulted them into the #6 spot.


The National Championship final was a match between Cincinnati and Loyola, who I believe had only three losses between them with two of them coming against WSU.


Great post Rambler63. Looks like you're poised again for some promising years ahead
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Re: Shockers Take One Final Look Back

Postby Snaggletooth » June 29th, 2017, 8:49 pm

Dean Wormer wrote:
Seems like they worked their way into your vernacular long before that...I wonder what Ben Christensen's favorite Evansville memory is?


I would suspect now he can take pride in beaning a child molester.
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Re: Shockers Take One Final Look Back

Postby mule » June 29th, 2017, 9:36 pm

Snaggletooth wrote:
Dean Wormer wrote:
Seems like they worked their way into your vernacular long before that...I wonder what Ben Christensen's favorite Evansville memory is?


I would suspect now he can take pride in beaning a child molester.

Again another classless post from a Shocker fan. Please just go away.
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Re: Shockers Take One Final Look Back

Postby MissouriValleyUnite » June 30th, 2017, 12:07 am

Absolutely mind-blowing to think the Shockers started 4-20 in the Valley in Marshall's first year and a half. If that happened in today's instant gratification era, people would grow restless regardless of context. Also incredible Wichita was averaging 10k in that time period.

I vaguely remember during that 4-20 stretch, someone on ValleyTalk posting "Gregg Marshall is out of his league in this conference". Long forgotten, but maybe the most infamous MVC quote ever. Anyone remember who posted it?
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Re: Shockers Take One Final Look Back

Postby AndShock » June 30th, 2017, 1:00 am

MissouriValleyUnite wrote:Absolutely mind-blowing to think the Shockers started 4-20 in the Valley in Marshall's first year and a half. If that happened in today's instant gratification era, people would grow restless regardless of context. Also incredible Wichita was averaging 10k in that time period.

I vaguely remember during that 4-20 stretch, someone on ValleyTalk posting "Gregg Marshall is out of his league in this conference". Long forgotten, but maybe the most infamous MVC quote ever. Anyone remember who posted it?

I believe the exact quote was "Gregg Marshall is in over his head in this conference."

Here's another gem from March 2012 when Gregg was making 1.4 mil.

"Looks to me like he is overpaid for the results he produces."

Edit: ok, this topic I found will be fun to go through.

Big payday for an underachiever


My question: if the Shockers are so dominant, than why don't they dominate?


I apologize, I only feed the troll once but Rivals has Van Fleet as a 3 star recruit and not in the Top 100. Also only one other MVC team had offered him (Missori St) and his only other notable offer was Colorado St (or Northern Illinois if you mistook them for a good team like UNI ;) ). He's a good player and the Shox and MVC are lucky to have him but lets not over-inflate numbers (or at least tell us where you got those figures, and please don't say ESPN or I may actually find a way to lose even more respect for your opinions).



It is a little difficult to believe your are building a national program when you can't win your own league. I'm glad Marshall was retained, it ensures WSU will always be good just never great. Marshall always sea to buckle when the game is on the line late.



The only way an MVC team can become relevant is if Marshall leaves?

bahahahahahahahahaha

Now that's funny, and also very sad because I'm positive that you truly believe it.
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Re: Shockers Take One Final Look Back

Postby Bmarq04 » June 30th, 2017, 5:48 am

Is it just me or are shocker fans beginning to equal that old college freshman who constantly comes back to try to get into high school parties? They tell us all about how drunk they get every night and how much they get laid, but they still keep coming back to the high school party. They are so insistent on telling us how great they are, but they fail to realize we just don't care.

If the grass is truly greener on the other side, why do you keep coming back here? I know some of you will say that you're mvc fans, but then you rip on the current members. I would have guessed for as much crap as some of you gave creighton fans for doing the same, that you might have been a little classier.
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Re: Shockers Take One Final Look Back

Postby Veritas » June 30th, 2017, 7:23 am

I thought it was an interesting article I posted that would allow many teams to reminisce about some old historic games. I'd read something similar if two historic MoVal members (Bradley and Drake) posted a similar article. It's only when the non contributor MoVal schools post a snarky response do you read that WSU fans defend their school.
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Re: Shockers Take One Final Look Back

Postby WSpringsBird » June 30th, 2017, 8:27 am

Veritas wrote:I thought it was an interesting article I posted that would allow many teams to reminisce about some old historic games. I'd read something similar if two historic MoVal members (Bradley and Drake) posted a similar article. It's only when the non contributor MoVal schools post a snarky response do you read that WSU fans defend their school.


I enjoyed the article. Thanks for posting it. Suellentrop does a nice job covering the Shockers.
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Re: Shockers Take One Final Look Back

Postby Play Angry » June 30th, 2017, 10:47 am

WSpringsBird wrote:
Veritas wrote:I thought it was an interesting article I posted that would allow many teams to reminisce about some old historic games. I'd read something similar if two historic MoVal members (Bradley and Drake) posted a similar article. It's only when the non contributor MoVal schools post a snarky response do you read that WSU fans defend their school.


I enjoyed the article. Thanks for posting it. Suellentrop does a nice job covering the Shockers.


The MVC has been fortunate to have a pretty solid and stable roster of beat writers for its teams over the last 15 years or so. I will miss reading some of those guys' columns.
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Re: Shockers Take One Final Look Back

Postby LanceShock » June 30th, 2017, 11:02 am

MissouriValleyUnite wrote:Absolutely mind-blowing to think the Shockers started 4-20 in the Valley in Marshall's first year and a half. If that happened in today's instant gratification era, people would grow restless regardless of context. Also incredible Wichita was averaging 10k in that time period.

I vaguely remember during that 4-20 stretch, someone on ValleyTalk posting "Gregg Marshall is out of his league in this conference". Long forgotten, but maybe the most infamous MVC quote ever. Anyone remember who posted it?

It depends. I don't think Marshall would have started 4-20 without the injuries to Griskenas and Brauer his first year. I'm not sure how good Griskenas would have been, but he was starting to show signs of being a solid contributor when he was injured, certainly good enough to help that team. Then losing Brauer to the concussion was brutal. He wasn't quite the same when he came back. One thing I remember about that year is that through it all, Marshall had the team show up ready to play. After all the injuries, at times it seemed like they brought a knife to a gun fight, but always were ready to play.
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Re: Shockers Take One Final Look Back

Postby glm38 » June 30th, 2017, 3:29 pm

Interesting read.

My favorite memory is the last regular season game of 2011. WSU vs MSU. Tied for first. Winner take all. Best college basketball game I've ever seen live. I would think that even if we had lost. But we won it in a close well played game.
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