If we go to 12 who do you want (choose 2) poll?

Discuss the MVC hoops season here.

Choose 2 (you may change your vote later)

Murray State
74
47%
Oral Roberts
13
8%
Northern Kentucky
34
21%
North Dakota State
7
4%
South Dakota State
6
4%
South Dakota
4
3%
Other (please comment)
21
13%
 
Total votes : 159

Re: If we go to 12 who do you want (choose 2) poll?

Postby VUGrad1314 » December 27th, 2017, 4:06 pm

I think the MVFC will be happy to take Murray State to get back to an even 12 with North Dakota expected to join for next season. I don't think getting the Racers into the MVC\MVFC will be any trouble this time around. The question still to be resolved is who will be joining the MVC with you. I think the list is (in order of likely MVC interest):

1. SLU
2. Belmont
3. Milwaukee \NKU
4. NKU\Milwaukee
5. Dakotas
6. Oral Roberts
7.Omaha
8. UIC
9. Wright State
10. UMKC
With nothing below option #5 getting any serious consideration and the 12th very likely to come from the top 4.
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Re: If we go to 12 who do you want (choose 2) poll?

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Re: If we go to 12 who do you want (choose 2) poll?

Postby uniftw » December 28th, 2017, 9:45 am

VUGrad1314 wrote:Still, NMSU is far and away the strongest hoops brand and has been for a long time and most of your material predates NMSU's bowl season this year. I think the fact that their football program is showing signs of life is a big step forward for their MWC fortunes especially with the league down a bit in football. I don't get the strong preference for UTEP over NMSU when 1. UTEP and NMSU are basically looked upon as being part of the same media market and 2. It's been a long time since UTEP has significantly outperformed NMSU athletically even in football. In fact, the Aggies have been as strong or stronger for several years now. The problem before was that NMSU had nothing to sell in the conference's flagship sport; but now with the bowl bid that does not appear to be the case anymore. Furthermore, it appears that the focus for the MWC is not solely on football for this round of expansion, but also on increasing their hoops profile to go after at-large bids. Until recently, the MWC had no trouble getting at-large bids, so there wasn't much push to add strong basketball schools especially if they were terrible at football; but the MWC is surely struggling in that department now. No program under consideration helps the MWC more in this regard than NMSU.

You're completely ignoring everything that actually matters.

NMSU football has now been to 1 bowl game since 1960....which they achieved by literally the minimum standard by going 6-6 and they had to win 3 of their last 4, including their final 2 to get there. Those wins were:
Texas State - who was FCS just 4 years ago and is historically as bad as NMSU. They are 2-10 this year and 7-29 the last 3

Idaho - who is moving FCS next year and has been playing with about 68 scholarship players in preparation for the move, has 4 wins or less in 6 of the last 7 years with 3 of those being 1 win seasons. Over those 7 years Idaho is 22-32 and 9 of those wins came in 2016 as part of their "rally against the decision to move FCS" team. Which fell flat on it's face to a 4-8 record again this year.

South Alabama - a program that didn't exist until halfway through Obama's first term in office. Since becoming a full time football program South Alabama is 29-46 and has never had a winning season.


Looking at NMSU roster - they extremely senior laden
Their QB is a senior - threw for 3800 yards and 26 td in 11 games. In the last two years he's close to 6,500 yards and 50 TDs. He owns the career passing yardage record, 2nd in pass attempt record and completion record, 3rd in career completion %, 2nd in TD, 2nd most 200 yard passing games, 2nd most 300 yard passing games

Their leading rusher - who accounted for over half the carries and 70% of the yards is gone. If you add every ball carrier up from the last 2 years combined at NMSU they don't equal the guy that is graduating. He is top 2 in pretty much every rushing category in NMSU history.

Leading WR and 3rd leading WR are both gone after this year. Those two accounting for over half their receiver production. The 2nd WR is a JR.

3 starting OL were seniors this year and a 4th is a JR

Defensively they lose their best player and while they do return a bunch...they are all JRs. Something like 95% of this years defensive stats are gone by the end of next year.

They wouldn't be top 10 in attendance in the FCS. Heck, they'd be middle of the road in the MVFC most years

It isn't unreasonable to think they don't get to 6 wins again next year. That's been playing in the SBC and WAC they haven't gotten to 6 wins. They'd be a 2 win MWC team. They don't add TV market. They don't really add streaming numbers. UTEP isn't a great program either - and they were horrid this year - but they are historically significantly better than NMSU. Been to 5 bowl games since the turn of the century.

The politics of it will keep them out. Just as the politics, even with football, will always keep WSU from being in a conference with Kansas and Kansas State.
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Re: If we go to 12 who do you want (choose 2) poll?

Postby VUGrad1314 » December 29th, 2017, 1:40 am

Just thought everyone would like to know that Murray State freshman guard Ja Morant recorded a triple double tonight against Eastern Illinois after narrowly missing one the previous game against Detroit. I hope we can get the Racers into the MVC for next season because that program looks like it's positioned to do just fine in the league.
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Re: If we go to 12 who do you want (choose 2) poll?

Postby VUGrad1314 » December 29th, 2017, 1:59 pm

According to numbers pulled from a Horizon League fan thread NKU is averaging over 3000 fans a game with the numbers being even better when higher level competition comes in. That's more than twice the number Milwaukee sees go through the door, and their KenPom right now would be second to Missouri State. If they aren't being considered as a serious candidate, then the MVC isn't doing its job. They are 3.5 hours from the closest MVC school (Evansville) BUT they are within 5 hours of EVERY MVC member except Drake UNI and Missouri State. They have the market, the potential, and the team success and fanbase are steadily growing. Murray State and NKU would go a long way toward restoring the multi-bid MVC. NKU needs to be considered over Milwaukee. We can consider Milwaukee if the MVC ever considers expansion beyond 12 members (i.e. whenever Belmont and\or SLU realizes how badly they need the MVC.)

Here's the link to the discussion of Horizon League attendance: http://horizonleaguefans.freeforums.net ... attendance
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Re: If we go to 12 who do you want (choose 2) poll?

Postby Jsnhbe1Birds » December 29th, 2017, 2:13 pm

Murray and nku. I'm all about it. Then GCU and nmsu. Then ndsu and sdsu.
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Re: If we go to 12 who do you want (choose 2) poll?

Postby jackwagon » December 29th, 2017, 7:06 pm

North Kentucky and call it a day.
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Re: If we go to 12 who do you want (choose 2) poll?

Postby Redbird222 » December 29th, 2017, 8:50 pm

Take Murray and hold out for next round of conference shakeups. If Conneticut and Zags move to Big East, perhaps Dayton and St. Louis will stop holding out for e Big East dream. I think Xavier keeps Dayton out of Big East permanently. If A-10 has any movement then these would be the two teams I would like to join and they may be open. NKU needs to have more sustained success before we should extend an offer. Please no to Milwaukee ... this is A commuter school. I wouldn't mind NMSU but the MVC does not align with their football aspirations.
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Re: If we go to 12 who do you want (choose 2) poll?

Postby Jsnhbe1Birds » December 29th, 2017, 9:03 pm

Highly unlikely Gonzaga goes to the big east due to geography. the mvc is Midwestern based. The big East is predominately east coast based. It's more likely the zags will eventually join MWC with gcu, byu, and St mary's as basketball only members.
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Re: If we go to 12 who do you want (choose 2) poll?

Postby VUGrad1314 » December 30th, 2017, 12:56 am

That would be incredible for the Mountain West and would absolutely force the AAC to raid the A10 for the likes of Dayton VCU Richmond and Rhode Island just to maintain its strength. I have to believe that Dayton would take an invitation to the AAC before the MVC, especially if one or more of its A10 rivals goes that route with them. I also think the Mountain West is third on the list of considerations for Gonzaga behind the Big East and the AAC. But here are the scenarios I see as possible for this realignment:

Don't overestimate the complications of football or count out the Big 12. They can provide the cleanest simplest most desirable solution for both UCONN and BYU by simply admitting them as full members. Under this scenario the Big East does nothing while the AAC has two options:
1. Admit Liberty as a full member or
2. Admit Army (football only) and find a basketball only member looking to make a jump Since the loss of UCONN constitutes a major blow to the brand I don't believe that anyone below the level of Gonzaga\VCU\Dayton would be considered. They might even take all three
NMSU could be another option as a full member for the AAC as well though they could very well jump to the WCC along with GCU as that conference would be in serious need of quality if BYU and Gonzaga both defect

If the Big East does not expand and the A-10 loses one or more members (particularly if one of these schools is Dayton) SLU becomes an option for the Valley.

Just like with NMSU it will be hard to get UCONN to another conference because of FBS Football but if they can't find a willing conference association I'm sure they'd just let the football program be an FBS Independent. This appears to be the solution NMSU has adopted at least for next year. But the primary goal will be finding a permanent FBS home.

Let's suppose UCONN joins the Big East and chooses to go independent in football The Big East then has two choices:

1. Stay at 11 and keep the double round robin
2. Pick up a 12th member

Although I believe that option 1 is far more likely I'll entertain option 2. If the Big East is seeking a 12th member I have to believe that that member would have to be a team that moves the needle from a basketball standpoint and\or opens up a new market. The only schools that fit the criteria are Dayton VCU and Gonzaga Rumors are already suggesting that Dayton is being blocked by Xavier. If that's the case then I doubt Georgetown would be too terribly keen on VCU and even if Georgetown didn't block them would they really compromise the institutional profile of their conference for a school they don't have a past relationship with when they wouldn't do so for Wichita State-- a better program to bend the rules for than VCU? That leaves Gonzaga. Travel costs don't matter for a league like the Big East, Gonzaga can afford the move, they fit the institutional profile of the conference and have a profile no other candidate can match. The litmus test for Big East expansion was Creighton. When the Jays were admitted that proved that the Big East will expand anywhere for the right program. Gonzaga is that program.

Then the AAC will search for at least one member with Dayton and VCU heading that list. VCU seems more likely although Dayton has the nicer facilities the Flyers may run into the same problem getting into the AAC that they have getting in to the Big East since UC is there to block them from the AAC. Who could the A10 add to help ensure that it stays ahead of the MVC if VCU left? Does any combination of Vermont Siena Iona Albany Stony Brook Northeastern James Madison UNC-Wilmington Charleston Elon or any hypothetical addition or combo of additions do that especially with the MVC ready to add more strong schools? Not really and this would put both Dayton and SLU in play for the MVC and probably restore it to multibid status. If the Big East does not take Gonzaga the AAC will and either leave the A10 alone or go after the leading members of the conference to increase its basketball strength and profile. What this means for the MVC we don't know because these conferences need to make their moves first.
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Re: If we go to 12 who do you want (choose 2) poll?

Postby mvfcfan » December 30th, 2017, 1:10 pm

I used to be against adding NKU, but they are pretty good based on watching a few of their games this year (on ESPN3). Wouldn't mind having them at all and it would be another close game I could go to.
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