If we go to 12 who do you want (choose 2) poll?

Discuss the MVC hoops season here.

Choose 2 (you may change your vote later)

Murray State
74
47%
Oral Roberts
13
8%
Northern Kentucky
34
21%
North Dakota State
7
4%
South Dakota State
6
4%
South Dakota
4
3%
Other (please comment)
21
13%
 
Total votes : 159

Re: If we go to 12 who do you want (choose 2) poll?

Postby Mikovio » January 3rd, 2018, 9:19 am

mvfcfan wrote:
VUGrad1314 wrote:Just curious: why NKU over Belmont? Overall athletics commitment? Greater potential?


Lack of fan support is the biggest one for me. Their arena only seats 5000 and they only got 2400 on average last season. When their team isn't good one has to wonder how low their attendance will drop. I also don't like that they are in a city where they are second rate to Vanderbilt and maybe even Tennessee State. TSU averages more than Belmont (TSU had 2600 last season) and they have not had the success Belmont has had. Their arena is only okay as well.

One could argue that Northern Kentucky is second rate to Cincinnati and Xavier, but at least they are not technically in the city of Cincinnati and they are in a different state as well. Northern Kentucky also plays in a newer arena that is definitely MVC quality. I think they have a lot more overall potential (to have a growing fanbase and sustain success if/when their coach leaves) than what Belmont has.

This also leads into why I'm not very high on Milwaukee. They are second rate to Marquette and what's worse is that they play across the street from where Marquette plays. So I really hope we pass on them, although I fear that is who we will add.

Oral Roberts' fanbase has completely disappeared, so I don't want them. They couldn't even bring a crowd to their cross town rivalry game against Tulsa that I attended. UIC is the same deal. Sometimes I hear UMKC brought up, but they have talked about dropping out of D1, so I'm not sure what the appeal is there.


UNK is second rate in metro Cincy to UC, Xavier AND Miami. And Kentucky while a great basketball state is smaller than Wisconsin and oversaturated with established teams (UK, UL, Murray, WKU). Plus UK's hold on KY is stronger than UW's hold on WI. I'd rather add a KY and WI team than two KY teams, even if UNK is higher than UWM at the moment. This is a long term add and I just see more potential in Milwaukee.
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Re: If we go to 12 who do you want (choose 2) poll?

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Re: If we go to 12 who do you want (choose 2) poll?

Postby smidge34 » January 3rd, 2018, 9:51 am

RacerJoeD wrote:Smidge, I think he was referring to a competition between the possible "12's", NKU, Belmont, etc. and not Murray St.

Trust me, I did this earlier in the thread lol


Good deal
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Re: If we go to 12 who do you want (choose 2) poll?

Postby MissouriValleyUnite » January 3rd, 2018, 12:43 pm

Mikovio wrote:
mvfcfan wrote:
VUGrad1314 wrote:Just curious: why NKU over Belmont? Overall athletics commitment? Greater potential?


Lack of fan support is the biggest one for me. Their arena only seats 5000 and they only got 2400 on average last season. When their team isn't good one has to wonder how low their attendance will drop. I also don't like that they are in a city where they are second rate to Vanderbilt and maybe even Tennessee State. TSU averages more than Belmont (TSU had 2600 last season) and they have not had the success Belmont has had. Their arena is only okay as well.

One could argue that Northern Kentucky is second rate to Cincinnati and Xavier, but at least they are not technically in the city of Cincinnati and they are in a different state as well. Northern Kentucky also plays in a newer arena that is definitely MVC quality. I think they have a lot more overall potential (to have a growing fanbase and sustain success if/when their coach leaves) than what Belmont has.

This also leads into why I'm not very high on Milwaukee. They are second rate to Marquette and what's worse is that they play across the street from where Marquette plays. So I really hope we pass on them, although I fear that is who we will add.

Oral Roberts' fanbase has completely disappeared, so I don't want them. They couldn't even bring a crowd to their cross town rivalry game against Tulsa that I attended. UIC is the same deal. Sometimes I hear UMKC brought up, but they have talked about dropping out of D1, so I'm not sure what the appeal is there.


UNK is second rate in metro Cincy to UC, Xavier AND Miami. And Kentucky while a great basketball state is smaller than Wisconsin and oversaturated with established teams (UK, UL, Murray, WKU). Plus UK's hold on KY is stronger than UW's hold on WI. I'd rather add a KY and WI team than two KY teams, even if UNK is higher than UWM at the moment. This is a long term add and I just see more potential in Milwaukee.


I’ve been to a Saturday game at both UWM and NKU this past month. Walked in thinking both were about the same and walked out knowing NKU is lightyears better.

UWM is directly competing against the Bucks and Marquette who both play next door, not to mention the Admirals draw better and UW’s presence. There couldn’t have been more than a couple hundred UWM fans at the game I went - almost as many gold/maroon scarves there (Loyola held an alumni event). I parked first row, sat third row and my section only had a dozen people. This was on a heavily marketed Star Wars Day with free bobbleheads.

NKU was definitely a bigger presence in Cincy. When I arrived, the parking garage was completely full so I had to park in the half-full adjacent lot. Then walked over the short bridge to the arena. Beautiful setting. Sat upper deck as the lower bowl was pretty crowded. The game legitimately had 3k butts in the seats - at least 5x as UWM in that regard. I spotted UK, X, & Cincy fans there - seemed there’s a good bunch who’ve adopted the Norse as #2 and go to the games. NKU DEFINITELY has a larger presence than Miami hoops in Cincy. NKU’s arena unquestionably would be #1 in the Valley.

I drove home blown away by the newness and high scale facilities at NKU. I left certain that NKU is a next gen mid-major with relatively decent fan support in just year #2. Go to a game at Milwaukee, then one at NKU. It’s night and day. You’ll be sold. I sure as heck was - and I liked attending UWM - but NKU was another level.
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Re: If we go to 12 who do you want (choose 2) poll?

Postby Kip Dynamite » January 3rd, 2018, 1:26 pm

I agree with you about NKU on everything except their arena. I've been there and it is very nice but is definitely not in the same league as Missouri State's JQH Arena. Not in size, scope, amenities or cost.
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Re: If we go to 12 who do you want (choose 2) poll?

Postby VUGrad1314 » January 3rd, 2018, 3:13 pm

I will confirm that I was referring to possible 12th members only and not to Murray State. I have approached this entire expansion process with the assumption that the Racers were in at #11 and we were just looking for another suitable team to enter with them. I know their history I fully support their inclusion and found their commitment to athletics downright inspiring. I loved the quote from your board of regents meeting "You are who you compete against." The fact that they beat a couple of MVC teams and played Auburn and MTSU tough is just icing on the "Murray and the MVC need each other" cake.

I get the appeal of adding schools in multiple states especially since Milwaukee has a nice TV package that I suspect would grow with MVC membership, they look to have a solid coach in place who is recruiting well, and it actually keeps our footprint tighter and presumably more stable, but their athletics department is a mess and the fanbase absolutely hates their AD. They draw NOBODY and I'm not sure a move to the MVC would change that much. That's how alienated the fanbase is. Furthermore, I don't think their fanbase travels well at all. I've heard criticisms that the Badgers are more popular than the Panthers are on campus, and I remember several Valpo-Milwaukee Horizon League matches up in Wisconsin that sounded like Valpo home games. Not to mention their inconsistency on the court. While the potential is there, it feels like Milwaukee is a program that is years away from being years away from helping out the MVC in any meaningful way. They need to sort out their leadership and figure out how to get fans through the door before making the jump to the MVC.

As for your thoughts on NKU, I could not disagree more strongly. I believe that there is incredible growth potential both short and long-term. Remember they have shown consistently strong commitment to athletics.They are still in their D1 infancy and they are performing wonderfully. In the MVC I could see them carving out a very solid piece for themselves in the Cincinnati\Kentucky CBB landscape. They're beginning to build a brand and a TV presence and moving to the MVC will only enhance that. NKU is the Midwest's GCU except better and more proven albeit with less financial clout. If the goal is a multibid conference and programs that will be competitive from the jump, then take NKU over Milwaukee all day.
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Re: If we go to 12 who do you want (choose 2) poll?

Postby VUGrad1314 » January 3rd, 2018, 6:34 pm

Read these attendance numbers... We've gotta get NKU NOW!!!

http://horizonleaguefans.freeforums.net ... attendance
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Re: If we go to 12 who do you want (choose 2) poll?

Postby RacerJoeD » January 3rd, 2018, 7:42 pm

Beware reported attendance numbers...
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Re: If we go to 12 who do you want (choose 2) poll?

Postby VUGrad1314 » January 3rd, 2018, 8:02 pm

Regardless they've got to be significantly better than anyone else we're considering for the 12th spot. Most other HL teams draw nobody, Belmont struggles,and SLU isn't possible until the A10 gets poached again. If we're looking to fill that 12th spot right now NKU is by far and away the best candidate that could realistically move unless something drastically changes at SLU or Belmont.
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Re: If we go to 12 who do you want (choose 2) poll?

Postby Mikovio » January 3rd, 2018, 9:47 pm

Well MVU those fans you saw wearing X and UC shirts are bandwagonners. They're at games because NK is "up" now. Miami and Milwaukee are not, but if they were, you could bet their attendance would be much better. Miami made the Sweet 16 in '99 and Milwaukee made it in '05. In 2006, the year after that S16, Milwaukee averaged 5,304 per game. See:

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketb ... d/2006.pdf

That's higher than NK has shown it's capable of. Last year, NK's average attendance was 2,824.
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Re: If we go to 12 who do you want (choose 2) poll?

Postby VUGrad1314 » January 3rd, 2018, 10:16 pm

You're badly underestimating NKU and you're also underestimating how far Milwaukee has to go to win back the trust and goodwill of their fanbase. Ask any passionate Milwaukee fan how they feel about their AD and chancellor. They hate them and until Milwaukee finds itself under new management I firmly believe that the crowds will stay away no matter what the team does. They get outdrawn by minor league hockey. You don't want to hitch your wagon to that. It's got anchor city written all over it. You forget that NKU is doing all of this in just their second year of tournament eligibility. Two of their top three scorers will be back next year, and I would say that any team that lost by single digits to Vermont Memphis and Texas A&M is plenty capable of doing well in the MVC. And they'll pull in more revenue from MVC fan travel and even more bandwagoners since they'll be in a higher profile league.
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