If we go to 12 who do you want (choose 2) poll?

[mvfcfan]

I'm pretty convinced that UW Milwaukee will be the 12th team in.

1) They are in a large market.
2) They play in an MVC quality arena.
3) They spend around 3 million per year on BB.
4) Their endowment is 201 Million.
5) Their enrollment is 27,000 plus.
6) They add minimal travel for everyone in the conference.

I'm also pretty convinced that the reason they weren't added last year was because of Murray State's football team. OVC doesn't want their football without their basketball and quite frankly I don't blame them. It was also too late to make a switch. Now the MVFC is at least somewhat prepared for a possible Murray State addition.

[VUGrad1314]

I agree. I just really don't like the dysfunction of that athletic department and their inconsistency. They don't really add a lot to the league from a basketball standpoint and it upsets the public\private balance. If we're pursuing a Horizon League school in a large market then why isn't Northern Kentucky in play?

[uniftw]

They've got a better shot at being in the MWC than the MVC. Geography their rivalries and and FBS football There's no way they can be Missouri State's travel partner. Las Cruces, New Mexico is almost 1000 miles from Springfield, Missouri, a school with an administration reportedly reluctant to admit Murray State--a school 5.5 hours away -- by itself for travel reasons. I'm sure they're just all over the NMSU idea. Even with GCU as a partner it doesn't exactly lend itself to stability. This ship sailed when the Valley started really moving east, adding schools like Evansville Loyola and Valpo instead of trying to maintain their presence in Texas\Oklahoma. They needed to lay the necessary infrastructure for NMSU by giving them some semi-close conference mates. They haven't done that and I don't expect them to start with such a violent geographical swing to the West. I would be very surprised if we ever see the Valley expand south of Belmont\Oral Roberts or west of Tulsa.

No. NMSU has zero shot at the MWC. Period. If they were going to be a MWC team they would have already.

Look at their conference history
-Sun Belt football associate only after the WAC collapsed as a football conference between the MWC took the schools they wanted
-WAC
-Big West
-Missouri Valley
-Border Conference

There are about 6 schools in the MWC that will literally block anything/everything related to NMSU and the MWC - starting with UNM.

NMSU has the same MWC chances are Indiana State has with the American Athletic Conference.....zero.

The MWC was formed in 1999 from members of the WAC, Big West and former Border Conference members. Since it was formed 6 full time members - and 1 football associate member - have been added. They have been TCU, Boise State, Fresno State, Nevada, San Jose State, Utah State and Hawaii (FB). They've added literally anyone that could that would avoid NMSU.

They are more likely to add UTEP, Rice, UTSA, SMU or Houston (both of the last two are holding out for B12).

Heck, North Texas and Texas State are more likely adds than NMSU.

[VUGrad1314]

All of those schools either had stronger athletics brands than NMSU or in the case of SJSU brought in a more valuable media market than Las Cruces. This isn't really the case anymore when you look at other potential additions. I would say that NMSU can compete in terms of brand strength with UTEP and Rice adds much more to travel costs than NMSU while being an arguably weaker ahletic brand though it does have the market. UTSA and North Texas don't have the track records and brands to compete with NMSU and going into Texas doesn't make sense without NMSU either. I believe that it's just a matter of time before NMSU receives MWC consideration.

[mvfcfan]

All of those schools either had stronger athletics brands than NMSU or in the case of SJSU brought in a more valuable media market than Las Cruces. This isn't really the case anymore when you look at other potential additions. I would say that NMSU can compete in terms of brand strength with UTEP and Rice adds much more to travel costs than NMSU while being an arguably weaker ahletic brand though it does have the market. UTSA and North Texas don't have the track records and brands to compete with NMSU and going into Texas doesn't make sense without NMSU either. I believe that it's just a matter of time before NMSU receives MWC consideration.

I agree. They also bring in an immediate rivalry with New Mexico. It also gives all of the "New Mexico" market to the MWC. It's an addition that just makes sense. If the MWC doesn't see that then that's their loss.

NMST also would increase their brand in basketball a lot. The MWC has been struggling to get at large bids lately and New Mexico State just makes that league that much better. Is Utah State and Wyoming really that much better than NMST. That conference looks like it has a bunch of former WAC schools in it already. Makes no sense why New Mexico State wouldn't be considered.

I've heard that the Big Sky (FCS) wants New Mexico State, but NMST doesn't really want them. (Big Sky added Idaho for football, another FBS reject that gave up on finding a FBS home. Note that Idaho was already in the BSKY for all other sports.)

At some point New Mexico State has to make a move though. They can't just stay independent in football forever and I'm sure they don't want to. Back when they were in the Missouri Valley years ago I'm pretty sure we were a hybrid 1A/1AA conference. I'm not sure they would want to move to the MVC without having a home for football and if they did move to the MVC I don't think it would last very long. It would last until some FBS conference offered them a spot for football and all their other sports.

[uniftw]

All of those schools either had stronger athletics brands than NMSU or in the case of SJSU brought in a more valuable media market than Las Cruces. This isn't really the case anymore when you look at other potential additions. I would say that NMSU can compete in terms of brand strength with UTEP and Rice adds much more to travel costs than NMSU while being an arguably weaker ahletic brand though it does have the market. UTSA and North Texas don't have the track records and brands to compete with NMSU and going into Texas doesn't make sense without NMSU either. I believe that it's just a matter of time before NMSU receives MWC consideration.

You clearly haven't follow realignment when it comes to the MWC.

From May of 2016 looking at expansion possibilities - NMSU was only mentioned once in a very long article - Eastern Washington and NDSU got significantly more play. The only mention was

https://www.mwcconnection.com/2016/5/6/11610398/what-is-the-perfect-mountain-west

There are no independent teams to add and the Mountain West has already said no to New Mexico State to join

From the MWC comissioner in Sept 2016...and the only mention of NMSU in this entire article

http://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=4311746&itype=CMSID
Thompson noted there are 26 Football Bowl Subdivision teams located west of Denver. Twelve play in the Pac 12, and 12 more play in the Mountain West. The other two are BYU and New Mexico State.

"If we're expanding," Thompson said, "we're going east."

NMSU isn't east.

UTEP ESPN radio partner on rumors of UTEP joining the MWC...not a single NMSU mention
http://krod.com/rumors-flying-that-utep ... onference/

247 message board topic on NMSU and the MWC...

https://247sports.com/college/new-mexic ... t-71515870
UTEP sucks. No new implications for us. We are broke (same). UTEP and UNMintentionally screws us every chance they get (same). We are stuck in the Sun Belt / WAC (same). Nothing changes for us.
...
I don't think NMSU will ever be in the same conference as UNM or UTEP. If UTEP was to go to the MWC then the dominos will tumble affecting CUSA and the Sun Belt and that will impact NMSU.
...
Expansion is all about Football. No other sport matters. So Simple Question. Please answer. What does NMSU bring to a conference???? A new member would have to bring Fans, TVs and Money!!!! All of which NMSU could and wouldnot bring. It clearly states in the article that a new member would have to bring almost $4 million every year to the conference in revenue. TV is out for NMSU cause New Mexico is considered UNMs when it comes to television footprint. That is a fact. What else do you bring? NMSU is having to mortgage it's life to pay the Sun Belt to be included. FCS is the best place for NMSU. Still can keep basketball D1. Again what would NMSU bring to a conference??????
...
If the MWC were to add UTEP and Rice, then C-USA would only drop to 12 members; once UAB reinstates football. I don't see C-USA adding any new members. Furthermore, without UTEP to bridge the distance between other C-USA membersthere is no longer a need to add NMSU as UTEP's travel partner if C-USA were to expand. Without UTEP in C-USA, the next closest C-USA school would be UT San Antonio (over 500 miles away). That would leave NMSU with the same logistical problem they are trying to overcome in the Sun Belt to become a full member.

The only way conference expansion might help NMSU is if the Big 12 expands (to 12 members) and along with MWC expansion to create a domino effect that trickles down through the AAC which also effects C-USA such that C-USA drop below 12 members. Then C-USA would be forced to repopulate their ranks by adding Sun Belt schools. Then "maybe" NMSU would have an opportunity to join the Sun Belt as a full member out of necessity. But there would need to be desperation in Benson's eye for that to happen; like when he was desperate to rebuild the WAC by adding NMSU and Idaho after the massive exodus of schools to start up the MWC. If any of the SBC schools lost were Arkansas State and/or Louisiana Lafayette (two schools in favor of adding NMSU), then Benson could look East for school membership again (Eastern Kentucky, James Madison) further distancing the conference footprint from ever adding NMSU as a full member.

MWC message board about Idaho and NMSU. It's an 8 page thread so I won't post all of it...but some highlights
https://www.mwcboard.com/index.php?/top ... tain-west/

In a word: no.
...
No
...
Absolutely not
...
Only if they replace SJSU
...
NMSU would only be possibly decent add if SJSU was kicked out or schools left for AAC/P5. Until then...nope
...
I see a lot of no's above. I'm going with hell no!
...
Give me UTEP
....
Tulane and North Texas are better adds than those 2.
...
This is a dumb thread. No one is adding 2 shitty schools in shitty markets.
...
Only if we lost Boise, San Diego St, Colorado St, Air Force, New Mexico and UNLV and we absolutely, positively had to get back to 8 to avoid going the way of the WAC.
...
The Only way I see Idaho &/or NMSU added to the MWC is if the MWC loses at minimum 4 schools to P5 conferences.............that would leave the MWC at 8 and adding IU & NMSU wold get the MWC back to 10, and that would pretty much seal the fate of the MWC being a have not forever - At that point the MWC left behinds would just be trying to maintain FBS status and stay one spot ahead of the Big Sky Conference.
...
NMSU needs for the B12 to fall apart to get an invite. In that scenario, 3-6 MWC teams join the teams left behind when Texas and Oklahoma and a few others go elsewhere.

NMSU:MWC expansion::UMKC/UNO/USD:MVC expansion

The fans want nothing to do with it.
The administrators will say nothing about it, but behind closed doors the reality of their standing is the same as the fan perception. If/when they are brought up it's usually a ploy to generate movement elsewhere in the process.

I get, from a geographic stand point, NMSU makes sense in the MWC. There are only a few dozen schools west of the Mississippi - specifically west of the central time zone. Those that are out there are either very small, even by FCS standards and those that could move FBS (Montana/Montana State) have less than zero interest), or are already PAC12/MWC. However, the political formations of conferences will not allow NMSU into the MWC without significant movement.

Hell, go back 4-5 years ago when NDSU, specifically, was banging the drum of MVC harder than it's ever been done. Hell, look at the excuses to this day. What were/are they told? Geographically it wasn't a massive issue - though we tried to make it one.They don't fit the profile of the conference. They don't add to the existing TV deal, they don't do X or Y.

If you've followed realignment, specifically at the G5 level and with regards to football (which is what is driving this thing for 98% of the realigning being done at anything above a low major level) you wouldn't be making a case as to why NMSU will get into the MWC. If NMSU and Idaho were going to get into the MWC they wouldn't have been Sun Belt affiliates for years and then gotten kicked out with no home.

I'm not shocked, but am at the same time, as to how disconnected those without football - even FCS or scholarship FCS - get in regards to how much football is driving the bus. It's what made WSU finding a new home so difficult. If they were an FCS program with a 25K seat stadium they'd have been in the MWC or AAC years ago. Instead they became an "Oh S" option for the AAC at the thought of losing UCONN and Cinci and bending their own rules regarding football some. It's why the AAC will forever be WSU's home now even when Cinci and UCONN leave and SMU/Houston are on their first train out. Cinci will do anything for the B12, as would Houston. UCONN wants the Big East if they can work football affiliations out. That cofnerence takes a pretty big hit when those three are gone. You think have a conference of WSU, SMU, Temple, UCF, Tulsa, Tulane, Memphis, USF and ECU. All football schools that aren't entirely going to give an F what the only non-football member wants.

Football drives the bus. Politics is the co-pilot.

[VUGrad1314]

Still, NMSU is far and away the strongest hoops brand and has been for a long time and most of your material predates NMSU's bowl season this year. I think the fact that their football program is showing signs of life is a big step forward for their MWC fortunes especially with the league down a bit in football. I don't get the strong preference for UTEP over NMSU when 1. UTEP and NMSU are basically looked upon as being part of the same media market and 2. It's been a long time since UTEP has significantly outperformed NMSU athletically even in football. In fact, the Aggies have been as strong or stronger for several years now. The problem before was that NMSU had nothing to sell in the conference's flagship sport; but now with the bowl bid that does not appear to be the case anymore. Furthermore, it appears that the focus for the MWC is not solely on football for this round of expansion, but also on increasing their hoops profile to go after at-large bids. Until recently, the MWC had no trouble getting at-large bids, so there wasn't much push to add strong basketball schools especially if they were terrible at football; but the MWC is surely struggling in that department now. No program under consideration helps the MWC more in this regard than NMSU.

[smidge34]

I'm pretty convinced that UW Milwaukee will be the 12th team in.

1) They are in a large market.
2) They play in an MVC quality arena.
3) They spend around 3 million per year on BB.
4) Their endowment is 201 Million.
5) Their enrollment is 27,000 plus.
6) They add minimal travel for everyone in the conference.

I'm also pretty convinced that the reason they weren't added last year was because of Murray State's football team. OVC doesn't want their football without their basketball and quite frankly I don't blame them. It was also too late to make a switch. Now the MVFC is at least somewhat prepared for a possible Murray State addition.

I'd like to point out that our basketball and other sports but football could move to the MVC, while our football program could move to a willing FCS conference other than MVCF.

[VUGrad1314]

I think the MVFC will be happy to take Murray State to get back to an even 12 with North Dakota expected to join for next season. I don't think getting the Racers into the MVC\MVFC will be any trouble this time around. The question still to be resolved is who will be joining the MVC with you. I think the list is (in order of likely MVC interest):

1. SLU
2. Belmont
3. Milwaukee \NKU
4. NKU\Milwaukee
5. Dakotas
6. Oral Roberts
7.Omaha
8. UIC
9. Wright State
10. UMKC
With nothing below option #5 getting any serious consideration and the 12th very likely to come from the top 4.

[uniftw]

Still, NMSU is far and away the strongest hoops brand and has been for a long time and most of your material predates NMSU's bowl season this year. I think the fact that their football program is showing signs of life is a big step forward for their MWC fortunes especially with the league down a bit in football. I don't get the strong preference for UTEP over NMSU when 1. UTEP and NMSU are basically looked upon as being part of the same media market and 2. It's been a long time since UTEP has significantly outperformed NMSU athletically even in football. In fact, the Aggies have been as strong or stronger for several years now. The problem before was that NMSU had nothing to sell in the conference's flagship sport; but now with the bowl bid that does not appear to be the case anymore. Furthermore, it appears that the focus for the MWC is not solely on football for this round of expansion, but also on increasing their hoops profile to go after at-large bids. Until recently, the MWC had no trouble getting at-large bids, so there wasn't much push to add strong basketball schools especially if they were terrible at football; but the MWC is surely struggling in that department now. No program under consideration helps the MWC more in this regard than NMSU.

You're completely ignoring everything that actually matters.

NMSU football has now been to 1 bowl game since 1960....which they achieved by literally the minimum standard by going 6-6 and they had to win 3 of their last 4, including their final 2 to get there. Those wins were:
Texas State - who was FCS just 4 years ago and is historically as bad as NMSU. They are 2-10 this year and 7-29 the last 3

Idaho - who is moving FCS next year and has been playing with about 68 scholarship players in preparation for the move, has 4 wins or less in 6 of the last 7 years with 3 of those being 1 win seasons. Over those 7 years Idaho is 22-32 and 9 of those wins came in 2016 as part of their "rally against the decision to move FCS" team. Which fell flat on it's face to a 4-8 record again this year.

South Alabama - a program that didn't exist until halfway through Obama's first term in office. Since becoming a full time football program South Alabama is 29-46 and has never had a winning season.


Looking at NMSU roster - they extremely senior laden
Their QB is a senior - threw for 3800 yards and 26 td in 11 games. In the last two years he's close to 6,500 yards and 50 TDs. He owns the career passing yardage record, 2nd in pass attempt record and completion record, 3rd in career completion %, 2nd in TD, 2nd most 200 yard passing games, 2nd most 300 yard passing games

Their leading rusher - who accounted for over half the carries and 70% of the yards is gone. If you add every ball carrier up from the last 2 years combined at NMSU they don't equal the guy that is graduating. He is top 2 in pretty much every rushing category in NMSU history.

Leading WR and 3rd leading WR are both gone after this year. Those two accounting for over half their receiver production. The 2nd WR is a JR.

3 starting OL were seniors this year and a 4th is a JR

Defensively they lose their best player and while they do return a bunch...they are all JRs. Something like 95% of this years defensive stats are gone by the end of next year.

They wouldn't be top 10 in attendance in the FCS. Heck, they'd be middle of the road in the MVFC most years

It isn't unreasonable to think they don't get to 6 wins again next year. That's been playing in the SBC and WAC they haven't gotten to 6 wins. They'd be a 2 win MWC team. They don't add TV market. They don't really add streaming numbers. UTEP isn't a great program either - and they were horrid this year - but they are historically significantly better than NMSU. Been to 5 bowl games since the turn of the century.

The politics of it will keep them out. Just as the politics, even with football, will always keep WSU from being in a conference with Kansas and Kansas State.