Best MVC Coach

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Re: Best MVC Coach

Postby Drakey » October 9th, 2017, 8:02 pm

BCPanther wrote:Without Alize, would anybody have Lusk anywhere near the best recruiter? One big time hit doesn't move you that far up the rankings by itself. Tell me how many of his 'big time' guys have really been great players.

8-Medved-I assume he'll move up quickly and then be gone. Long way from Furman to the Valley


Not saying I agree or disagree, but why would the third worst coach in the conference be able to "move up quickly?" Unless you are talking about miles, I don't think that Furman is so far from the Valley anymore.
Last edited by Drakey on October 12th, 2017, 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Best MVC Coach

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Re: Best MVC Coach

Postby All-MVC Fan » October 10th, 2017, 9:22 am

Contrary to what some have said, I think there are some good coaches in this league. The problem is that most are really good at one aspect of the job, and lacking at others. And they don't have the budget to hire really good assistants to their own weaknesses. Some coaches are too loyal to assistants that drag them down. But on par, the coaches we've got range from very good anywhere to "what are you doing even having a job?"

I'm only going to rate those coaches who have been in the league before. And the shorter the tenure, the less reliability I give your performance thus far. Might not be totally fair, but it's my ranking. So put that in your pipe and smoke it!

Floor Coaches

1. Ben Jacobsen - absolutely the best coach we've got. A little (very little, relatively speaking) up and down, but he's never more than three years away from a Top 25 team
2. Dan Muller - The guy can coach, but can he keep players? He can game plan anyone
3. Barry Hinson - This guy has been around forever, and if he's not in the MVC Tournament Championship game, he can beat anyone at any time.
4. Porter Moser - Average on the floor, but he does have the Majerus pedigree which should help when he gets players
5. Brian Wardle - I've been impressed so far, but his short tenure rates him average
6. Greg Lansing - I think Lansing can coach, but his terrible recruiting recently has made executing even the most basic game plan difficult.
7. Marty Simmons - He runs the same thing every night. No changes, but if he had the horses, it would work, as a good motion offense is almost impossible to defend. But he doesn't have the horses, hasn't had the horses, and won't change anything.
8. Paul Lusk - This guy could find a way to lose to a team made up of my mother, sister, wife, and daughter.

Recruiting

1. Ben Jacobsen - Once again, just the best coach we've got. Consistency. He's never more than 3 years away from the Top 25
2. Porter Moser - his recruiting to Loyola has been stellar (on paper, at least) recently, and his teams should start to reflect that success in games
3. Paul Lusk - He's built a great roster at MSU. He has the best player in the MVC. His recruiting isn't the problem
4. Barry Hinson - He's quietly building something in Carbondale. He knows talent, he likes athleticism, and now that he's seemingly beyond the dumpster fire he inherited, I would imagine his recruiting will be even better
5. Dan Muller - Yes, he built a 17-1 team last season. But how many players leave Normal before their time is done? He lost, what? A hundred this past offseason? Gotta do better than that in my humble opinion. I could be wrong, but it seems he was looking to build a TEAM, not a PROGRAM. Big DOWN arrow here.
6. Brian Wardle - OK, this might be a bit low, but his short tenure lands him here. He definitely has an UP arrow, though.
7. Greg Lansing - He inherited some pretty good players from Kevin McKenna and then couldn't recruit anything to replace those players. But in the last six months, he's gotten three 3* players to commit (from various rating services) in Clayton Hughes, Devin Thomas, and yesterday, Cooper Neese. He added Tennesee's best high school player from last year. He's added some players in the last year that, if they pan out, will be a formidable team. Definitely an UP arrow here.
8. Marty Simmons - He always seemed to have one great scorer. Now, it doesn't seem he even has that. Big time DOWN arrow.

So, adding up the placements (lower score being better, tie goes to better floor coach):

Overall

1. Ben Jacobsen - 2 points
2. Porter Moser - 6 points
3. Dan Muller - 7 points
4. Barry Hinson - 7 points
5. Brian Wardle - 11 points
6. Paul Lusk - 11 points
7. Greg Lansing - 13 points
8. Marty Simmons - 15 points

I actually think that's a pretty accurate finding. A few you could argue, but overall, it's not too bad, if I do say so myself.
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Re: Best MVC Coach

Postby Born2Shock » October 10th, 2017, 11:11 am

All-MVC Fan wrote:Contrary to what some have said, I think there are some good coaches in this league. The problem is that most are really good at one aspect of the job, and lacking at others. And they don't have the budget to hire really good assistants to their own weaknesses. Some coaches are too loyal to assistants that drag them down. But on par, the coaches we've got range from very good anywhere to "what are you doing even having a job?"

I'm only going to rate those coaches who have been in the league before. And the shorter the tenure, the less reliability I give your performance thus far. Might not be totally fair, but it's my ranking. So put that in your pipe and smoke it!

Floor Coaches

1. Ben Jacobsen - absolutely the best coach we've got. A little (very little, relatively speaking) up and down, but he's never more than three years away from a Top 25 team
2. Dan Muller - The guy can coach, but can he keep players? He can game plan anyone
3. Barry Hinson - This guy has been around forever, and if he's not in the MVC Tournament Championship game, he can beat anyone at any time.
4. Porter Moser - Average on the floor, but he does have the Majerus pedigree which should help when he gets players
5. Brian Wardle - I've been impressed so far, but his short tenure rates him average
6. Greg Lansing - I think Lansing can coach, but his terrible recruiting recently has made executing even the most basic game plan difficult.
7. Marty Simmons - He runs the same thing every night. No changes, but if he had the horses, it would work, as a good motion offense is almost impossible to defend. But he doesn't have the horses, hasn't had the horses, and won't change anything.
8. Paul Lusk - This guy could find a way to lose to a team made up of my mother, sister, wife, and daughter.

Recruiting

1. Ben Jacobsen - Once again, just the best coach we've got. Consistency. He's never more than 3 years away from the Top 25
2. Porter Moser - his recruiting to Loyola has been stellar (on paper, at least) recently, and his teams should start to reflect that success in games
3. Paul Lusk - He's built a great roster at MSU. He has the best player in the MVC. His recruiting isn't the problem
4. Barry Hinson - He's quietly building something in Carbondale. He knows talent, he likes athleticism, and now that he's seemingly beyond the dumpster fire he inherited, I would imagine his recruiting will be even better
5. Dan Muller - Yes, he built a 17-1 team last season. But how many players leave Normal before their time is done? He lost, what? A hundred this past offseason? Gotta do better than that in my humble opinion. I could be wrong, but it seems he was looking to build a TEAM, not a PROGRAM. Big DOWN arrow here.
6. Brian Wardle - OK, this might be a bit low, but his short tenure lands him here. He definitely has an UP arrow, though.
7. Greg Lansing - He inherited some pretty good players from Kevin McKenna and then couldn't recruit anything to replace those players. But in the last six months, he's gotten three 3* players to commit (from various rating services) in Clayton Hughes, Devin Thomas, and yesterday, Cooper Neese. He added Tennesee's best high school player from last year. He's added some players in the last year that, if they pan out, will be a formidable team. Definitely an UP arrow here.
8. Marty Simmons - He always seemed to have one great scorer. Now, it doesn't seem he even has that. Big time DOWN arrow.

So, adding up the placements (lower score being better, tie goes to better floor coach):

Overall

1. Ben Jacobsen - 2 points
2. Porter Moser - 6 points
3. Dan Muller - 7 points
4. Barry Hinson - 7 points
5. Brian Wardle - 11 points
6. Paul Lusk - 11 points
7. Greg Lansing - 13 points
8. Marty Simmons - 15 points

I actually think that's a pretty accurate finding. A few you could argue, but overall, it's not too bad, if I do say so myself.


UNI should have no trouble going at least 17-1 with far and away the best coach then.
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Re: Best MVC Coach

Postby BEARZ77 » October 10th, 2017, 11:22 am

Born2Shock wrote:UNI should have no trouble going at least 17-1 with far and away the best coach then.


Somehow once wasn't enough for this same post in this thread. Evidently he didn't get the response he wanted.
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Re: Best MVC Coach

Postby All-MVC Fan » October 10th, 2017, 12:00 pm

Born2Shock wrote:
All-MVC Fan wrote:Contrary to what some have said, I think there are some good coaches in this league. The problem is that most are really good at one aspect of the job, and lacking at others. And they don't have the budget to hire really good assistants to their own weaknesses. Some coaches are too loyal to assistants that drag them down. But on par, the coaches we've got range from very good anywhere to "what are you doing even having a job?"

I'm only going to rate those coaches who have been in the league before. And the shorter the tenure, the less reliability I give your performance thus far. Might not be totally fair, but it's my ranking. So put that in your pipe and smoke it!

Floor Coaches

1. Ben Jacobsen - absolutely the best coach we've got. A little (very little, relatively speaking) up and down, but he's never more than three years away from a Top 25 team
2. Dan Muller - The guy can coach, but can he keep players? He can game plan anyone
3. Barry Hinson - This guy has been around forever, and if he's not in the MVC Tournament Championship game, he can beat anyone at any time.
4. Porter Moser - Average on the floor, but he does have the Majerus pedigree which should help when he gets players
5. Brian Wardle - I've been impressed so far, but his short tenure rates him average
6. Greg Lansing - I think Lansing can coach, but his terrible recruiting recently has made executing even the most basic game plan difficult.
7. Marty Simmons - He runs the same thing every night. No changes, but if he had the horses, it would work, as a good motion offense is almost impossible to defend. But he doesn't have the horses, hasn't had the horses, and won't change anything.
8. Paul Lusk - This guy could find a way to lose to a team made up of my mother, sister, wife, and daughter.

Recruiting

1. Ben Jacobsen - Once again, just the best coach we've got. Consistency. He's never more than 3 years away from the Top 25
2. Porter Moser - his recruiting to Loyola has been stellar (on paper, at least) recently, and his teams should start to reflect that success in games
3. Paul Lusk - He's built a great roster at MSU. He has the best player in the MVC. His recruiting isn't the problem
4. Barry Hinson - He's quietly building something in Carbondale. He knows talent, he likes athleticism, and now that he's seemingly beyond the dumpster fire he inherited, I would imagine his recruiting will be even better
5. Dan Muller - Yes, he built a 17-1 team last season. But how many players leave Normal before their time is done? He lost, what? A hundred this past offseason? Gotta do better than that in my humble opinion. I could be wrong, but it seems he was looking to build a TEAM, not a PROGRAM. Big DOWN arrow here.
6. Brian Wardle - OK, this might be a bit low, but his short tenure lands him here. He definitely has an UP arrow, though.
7. Greg Lansing - He inherited some pretty good players from Kevin McKenna and then couldn't recruit anything to replace those players. But in the last six months, he's gotten three 3* players to commit (from various rating services) in Clayton Hughes, Devin Thomas, and yesterday, Cooper Neese. He added Tennesee's best high school player from last year. He's added some players in the last year that, if they pan out, will be a formidable team. Definitely an UP arrow here.
8. Marty Simmons - He always seemed to have one great scorer. Now, it doesn't seem he even has that. Big time DOWN arrow.

So, adding up the placements (lower score being better, tie goes to better floor coach):

Overall

1. Ben Jacobsen - 2 points
2. Porter Moser - 6 points
3. Dan Muller - 7 points
4. Barry Hinson - 7 points
5. Brian Wardle - 11 points
6. Paul Lusk - 11 points
7. Greg Lansing - 13 points
8. Marty Simmons - 15 points

I actually think that's a pretty accurate finding. A few you could argue, but overall, it's not too bad, if I do say so myself.


UNI should have no trouble going at least 17-1 with far and away the best coach then.


Seriously? You really think there’s a question as to who the best remaining coach is here in the MVC? You obviously haven’t watched anything outside of Wichita for the past 10 years... :roll:
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Re: Best MVC Coach

Postby Old School MVC » October 10th, 2017, 12:49 pm

BEARZ77 wrote:
Born2Shock wrote:UNI should have no trouble going at least 17-1 with far and away the best coach then.


Somehow once wasn't enough for this same post in this thread. Evidently he didn't get the response he wanted.


Somehow we forgot that when talking about coaches we must always mention Marshall is a Great coach who will never leave Wichita because it is such a great community. With that, here is a reminder that when we talk about great players we must always talk about Baker and VanVleet.
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Re: Best MVC Coach

Postby Born2Shock » October 10th, 2017, 12:58 pm

Old School MVC wrote:
BEARZ77 wrote:
Born2Shock wrote:UNI should have no trouble going at least 17-1 with far and away the best coach then.


Somehow once wasn't enough for this same post in this thread. Evidently he didn't get the response he wanted.


Somehow we forgot that when talking about coaches we must always mention Marshall is a Great coach who will never leave Wichita because it is such a great community. With that, here is a reminder that when we talk about great players we must always talk about Baker and VanVleet.


No one mentioned Marshall, FVV, or Baker, save you. I certainly didnt, nor do I intend to. Theres only 1 coach in the Valley that has shown he can go 17-1: Muller. Im just curious as to why its crazytalk for me to assume Jacobson will go 17-1 or better, since he is clearly the best recruiter and floor coach, per this thread.
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Re: Best MVC Coach

Postby Old School MVC » October 10th, 2017, 1:17 pm

I completely disagree with those who consider him a good recruiter. I had him 5th out of 8 (did not count the two first year guys). I think he is heads and shoulders the best floor coach, but recruiter....not even close.
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Re: Best MVC Coach

Postby BEARZ77 » October 10th, 2017, 2:08 pm

Born2Shock wrote:No one mentioned Marshall, FVV, or Baker, save you. I certainly didnt, nor do I intend to. Theres only 1 coach in the Valley that has shown he can go 17-1: Muller. Im just curious as to why its crazytalk for me to assume Jacobson will go 17-1 or better, since he is clearly the best recruiter and floor coach, per this thread.


No one said it was crazy talk; we just don't like trolls posting. You had already made your point once, why a repeat unless you were trolling.
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Re: Best MVC Coach

Postby All-MVC Fan » October 10th, 2017, 2:51 pm

Old School MVC wrote:I completely disagree with those who consider him a good recruiter. I had him 5th out of 8 (did not count the two first year guys). I think he is heads and shoulders the best floor coach, but recruiter....not even close.


I assume you’re talking about Jacobsen, and if so, I can respect your point of view. I ranked him highest in recruiting because, while he doesn’t get the crazy athletic freak type players, he does a better job of recruiting players who can play his system than anyone else in the league. But I can see why others would disagree with me.
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Re: Best MVC Coach

Postby unipanther99 » October 10th, 2017, 3:00 pm

Old School MVC wrote:I completely disagree with those who consider him a good recruiter. I had him 5th out of 8 (did not count the two first year guys). I think he is heads and shoulders the best floor coach, but recruiter....not even close.


If you're judging by stars or some recruiting expert's list of players, perhaps. If you're judging by program fit and finding guys with potential, it's a different story. Do UNI fans want to see highly regarded recruits? I guess so. But not unless our coach thinks they will be a good fit. Not everyone wants to play our style of ball, and that's okay.

There's more to coaching than floor X&O's and recruiting. Scheduling is really important.
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Re: Best MVC Coach

Postby Jsnhbe1Birds » October 10th, 2017, 3:00 pm

All-MVC Fan wrote:
Old School MVC wrote:I completely disagree with those who consider him a good recruiter. I had him 5th out of 8 (did not count the two first year guys). I think he is heads and shoulders the best floor coach, but recruiter....not even close.


I assume you’re talking about Jacobsen, and if so, I can respect your point of view. I ranked him highest in recruiting because, while he doesn’t get the crazy athletic freak type players, he does a better job of recruiting players who can play his system than anyone else in the league. But I can see why others would disagree with me.


Getting players to play well in the system is an attribute of being a good floor coach not recruiting.
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