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mvfcfan wrote:If Dayton left the A10 for the Big East would the Atlantic 10 even want St Louis anymore? With their lack of success and the fact that their closest opponent would be Duquesne (Pittsburgh, PA, 602 miles away) it wouldn't make much sense for SLU to stay in that league. It almost reminds me of the Sun Belt football issue where they are kicking NM State and Idaho out because they aren't in the region.

During the last round of expansion I think Richmond was a serious contender too. If the Big East wants a bridge to Creighton, SLU makes sense. What's funny is that the best fit in many ways is Gonzaga, but they are a million miles into nowhere so it won't happen.

Honest question - given the true reality of SLU and their program history, why should the MVC want them so bad?

I know location and potential due to budget and what not, but they've always had that budget and potential. Is there a real reason to believe that playing in the MVC will make them better?

***Full disclosure, I'd take SLU and Murray State in a New York minute.

Good facilities, tradition, financial resources, metro area, butts in the seats at Scottrade.

SLU is a natural fit, especially if paired with a state school like Murray.

uniftw wrote:Honest question - given the true reality of SLU and their program history, why should the MVC want them so bad?

I know location and potential due to budget and what not, but they've always had that budget and potential. Is there a real reason to believe that playing in the MVC will make them better?

***Full disclosure, I'd take SLU and Murray State in a New York minute.

I think because they've been bad the last 3 years and have a rollercoaster type history, many forget they've also been very good at times and have averaged as high as 17,000 fans when in the Scotttrade in the past. Playing in their current facility, they would probably be in the top 3-4 every year in attendance in the MVC. In the past 25 years which is the time frame for most of the current MVC schools, SLU has made as many NCAA appearances as anyone in the Valley[ 7, same as UNI] and more combined NCAA/NIT appearances than any Valley member. And they did that playing in somewhat higher level leagues most of the time, so that's their potential. To me they've always been a no brainer and would solve a lot of questions for the MVC if paired with Murray as a package addition. Bears would have a travel partner, great rivalries with MSU/SIU, even Bradley etc etc.

mvfcfan wrote:If Dayton left the A10 for the Big East would the Atlantic 10 even want St Louis anymore? With their lack of success and the fact that their closest opponent would be Duquesne (Pittsburgh, PA, 602 miles away) it wouldn't make much sense for SLU to stay in that league. It almost reminds me of the Sun Belt football issue where they are kicking NM State and Idaho out because they aren't in the region.

or very similar to the Big Sky getting rid of the University of North Dakota. They were truly on an island

I think St Louis has a better chance at the Big East than Dayton. Remember going to 11 and stopping is purely to satisfy the TV partner. I think St Louis is marginally better than Dayton, but neither move the needle too much. VCU and Wichita aren't institutional fits; Richmond is a darkhorse but doesn't move the TV needle. But in the end, you need to improve basketball television inventory and none of private schools provide this benefit.

I just can't see UConn at the moment; any move to the Big East would require some agreement that UConn is done pursuing a P5 and they are years and years away from giving up that dream. I think the Big East holds until that day comes.

I still think going to 12 with UConn and a western partner is endgame for the BEast, and I encourage Wichita St to remain vigilant about this.

I do think if Dayton gets pried from the A-10, St Louis is not long for there; you can get to the Big East from the MVC. But make no mistake, the A-10 is still in better position than the MVC overall. I don't think we'll ever lure Dayton over here.

TheAsianSensation wrote:I think St Louis has a better chance at the Big East than Dayton. Remember going to 11 and stopping is purely to satisfy the TV partner. I think St Louis is marginally better than Dayton, but neither move the needle too much. VCU and Wichita aren't institutional fits; Richmond is a darkhorse but doesn't move the TV needle. But in the end, you need to improve basketball television inventory and none of private schools provide this benefit.

I just can't see UConn at the moment; any move to the Big East would require some agreement that UConn is done pursuing a P5 and they are years and years away from giving up that dream. I think the Big East holds until that day comes.

I still think going to 12 with UConn and a western partner is endgame for the BEast, and I encourage Wichita St to remain vigilant about this.

I do think if Dayton gets pried from the A-10, St Louis is not long for there; you can get to the Big East from the MVC. But make no mistake, the A-10 is still in better position than the MVC overall. I don't think we'll ever lure Dayton over here.

I'd much rather be in the mvc than the a-10. The A-10 has a higher ceiling but also a lower floor. Even losing wichita the mvc is going to continue to bounce between the 9th-12th best conference. The A-10 is unstable. VCU and Dayton are not long for the A-10. SLU won't last long after that, either. The conference rank will drop dramatically. LaSalle and Duquesne don't scare too many people. Davidson doesn't have steph Curry anymore. St. Joseph's will be the best left and who will the A-10 add to bring them significantly back up the rankings? Richmond? Please. They'll be in the same spot the MVC is in now. Nobody to add to replace what they lost. The difference is the MVC has to replace one good program with a lesser. The A-10 will have to add three. Good luck A-10 and enjoy the present because you're about to be a low mid-major conference within 10 years.

Jsnhbe1Birds wrote:

TheAsianSensation wrote:I think St Louis has a better chance at the Big East than Dayton. Remember going to 11 and stopping is purely to satisfy the TV partner. I think St Louis is marginally better than Dayton, but neither move the needle too much. VCU and Wichita aren't institutional fits; Richmond is a darkhorse but doesn't move the TV needle. But in the end, you need to improve basketball television inventory and none of private schools provide this benefit.

I just can't see UConn at the moment; any move to the Big East would require some agreement that UConn is done pursuing a P5 and they are years and years away from giving up that dream. I think the Big East holds until that day comes.

I still think going to 12 with UConn and a western partner is endgame for the BEast, and I encourage Wichita St to remain vigilant about this.

I do think if Dayton gets pried from the A-10, St Louis is not long for there; you can get to the Big East from the MVC. But make no mistake, the A-10 is still in better position than the MVC overall. I don't think we'll ever lure Dayton over here.

I'd much rather be in the mvc than the a-10. The A-10 has a higher ceiling but also a lower floor. Even losing wichita the mvc is going to continue to bounce between the 9th-12th best conference. The A-10 is unstable. VCU and Dayton are not long for the A-10. SLU won't last long after that, either. The conference rank will drop dramatically. LaSalle and Duquesne don't scare too many people. Davidson doesn't have steph Curry anymore. St. Joseph's will be the best left and who will the A-10 add to bring them significantly back up the rankings? Richmond? Please. They'll be in the same spot the MVC is in now. Nobody to add to replace what they lost. The difference is the MVC has to replace one good program with a lesser. The A-10 will have to add three. Good luck A-10 and enjoy the present because you're about to be a low mid-major conference within 10 years.

A10 is clearly a peg above right now. Not like there aren't suitable replacements - Siena, Iona, Vermont. They don't *have* to replace anyway since they're at 14.

Dayton, Saint Louis, UMass are risks to leave, sure, but the odds of all 3 getting poached short term are slim. VCU has nowhere to go - A10 is their home forever just like the remaining 10.

Jsnhbe1Birds wrote:

TheAsianSensation wrote:I think St Louis has a better chance at the Big East than Dayton. Remember going to 11 and stopping is purely to satisfy the TV partner. I think St Louis is marginally better than Dayton, but neither move the needle too much. VCU and Wichita aren't institutional fits; Richmond is a darkhorse but doesn't move the TV needle. But in the end, you need to improve basketball television inventory and none of private schools provide this benefit.

I just can't see UConn at the moment; any move to the Big East would require some agreement that UConn is done pursuing a P5 and they are years and years away from giving up that dream. I think the Big East holds until that day comes.

I still think going to 12 with UConn and a western partner is endgame for the BEast, and I encourage Wichita St to remain vigilant about this.

I do think if Dayton gets pried from the A-10, St Louis is not long for there; you can get to the Big East from the MVC. But make no mistake, the A-10 is still in better position than the MVC overall. I don't think we'll ever lure Dayton over here.

I'd much rather be in the mvc than the a-10. The A-10 has a higher ceiling but also a lower floor. Even losing wichita the mvc is going to continue to bounce between the 9th-12th best conference. The A-10 is unstable. VCU and Dayton are not long for the A-10. SLU won't last long after that, either. The conference rank will drop dramatically. LaSalle and Duquesne don't scare too many people. Davidson doesn't have steph Curry anymore. St. Joseph's will be the best left and who will the A-10 add to bring them significantly back up the rankings? Richmond? Please. They'll be in the same spot the MVC is in now. Nobody to add to replace what they lost. The difference is the MVC has to replace one good program with a lesser. The A-10 will have to add three. Good luck A-10 and enjoy the present because you're about to be a low mid-major conference within 10 years.

I think everyone overestimates the chances of teams leaving that conference. Big East probably isn't going to call. AAC is pretty full, and even if they lose a couple teams they don't have to backfill. Dayton is likely there for the long haul. VCU can be debatable.

Further down, I trust programs like George Washington, Bonaventure, St Joe's, URI, and UMass to be more relevant on a national stage. Those teams will at least peak and be legitimate at-large players once every few years. St Louis, Davidson, VCU, Dayton. More depth in the conference. In the MVC, all we've had among current members in the last decade is UNI, plus a couple half-hearted IlSU attempts and a couple Missouri St jobbings.

The difference between the A10 and the Valley id focus. They understand what stye want to be (a basketball conference) and they do not have schools playing scholarship football. It is the only formula that works outside of the Power 5, and that is why they will likely stay ahead of the Valley. The Valley has no focus.