MVC Games - Mon 12/4-Sun 12/10

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Re: MVC Games - Mon 12/4-Sun 12/10

Postby bleach » December 11th, 2017, 3:53 am

PantherSigEp wrote:How much will it cost to buy out Lusk's contract? I can offer $5. Can we take up a collection?


I don't think money is the issue. I don't think the AD wants him gone.
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Re: MVC Games - Mon 12/4-Sun 12/10

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Re: MVC Games - Mon 12/4-Sun 12/10

Postby uniftw » December 11th, 2017, 8:54 am

bleach wrote:
PantherSigEp wrote:How much will it cost to buy out Lusk's contract? I can offer $5. Can we take up a collection?


I don't think money is the issue. I don't think the AD wants him gone.

He's put up with these results for 8 years now, what's the point of moving on?

Same situation in Evansville, really.

You've shown the fans, donors, players, coaches, and conference you think he's doing an acceptable job and that the program is at an acceptable place. Surely there can't be anymore justification now than there was 2 years ago.
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Re: MVC Games - Mon 12/4-Sun 12/10

Postby scotte101 » December 11th, 2017, 9:17 am

uniftw wrote:
bleach wrote:
PantherSigEp wrote:How much will it cost to buy out Lusk's contract? I can offer $5. Can we take up a collection?


I don't think money is the issue. I don't think the AD wants him gone.

He's put up with these results for 8 years now, what's the point of moving on?

Same situation in Evansville, really.

You've shown the fans, donors, players, coaches, and conference you think he's doing an acceptable job and that the program is at an acceptable place. Surely there can't be anymore justification now than there was 2 years ago.


As a diehard Bears fan, MSU Alum, and now a season ticket holder (side note: first year...pretty pumped to have them and start a tradition with my kids), I can't possibly agree with this post any more. It's sad unfortunately. I am not one to call for someone to lose their job, but I think most of us would lose our job with the results we've seen in Springfield the last 7 seasons. By all accounts, Lusk is a good man, but it's pretty evident that he's not a very good coach. The roster we have this season is incredible and I expect a lot of wins, but to me anything short of the NCAA tourney is a failure. If we get there and he's the coach, I'll give him his props. That's only fair.

This ORU game though...wow...
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Re: MVC Games - Mon 12/4-Sun 12/10

Postby uniftw » December 11th, 2017, 9:41 am

In general, I take out the first two or three years of each coaches tenure out as they are mostly the previous coaches players and "program" foundation.

Taking the first three years out of Lusk's stats he is

11-20 (5-13)
13-19 (8-10)
17-16 (7-11)
9-3 (0-0) but they have looked far from impressive given their SoS so far

That is 50-58 46.3% (20-34 37.0%)

Including his first 3 he is 97-109 (47.1) 45-64 (41.3)

He's actually getting worse the longer he's there, HOWEVER, he's been shown to be at an acceptable level the entire time by the AD. He has 2 winning seasons, and one of them was 1 game over .500. Never been over .500 in conference play

No contrast that to Barry Hinson being fired after 9 years where he went 169-117 (59.1) and 95-67 (58.6). Only once did he finish below .500 - his second season.

I don't get it at MSU. You don't keep a coach that struggles to get to .500 and finish top half of the conference for 7-8+ years unless that is the standard of acceptance. So far I have no reason to believe that isn't the case at MSU and Evansville. They both may as well keep their coaches and avoid having to pay the buy out, search firm, and new coach contract.
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Re: MVC Games - Mon 12/4-Sun 12/10

Postby ahunte1 » December 11th, 2017, 11:26 am

uniftw wrote:In general, I take out the first two or three years of each coaches tenure out as they are mostly the previous coaches players and "program" foundation.

Taking the first three years out of Lusk's stats he is

11-20 (5-13)
13-19 (8-10)
17-16 (7-11)
9-3 (0-0) but they have looked far from impressive given their SoS so far

That is 50-58 46.3% (20-34 37.0%)

Including his first 3 he is 97-109 (47.1) 45-64 (41.3)


This got me curious about Moser because I think it is a fair way to judge. If you take out Moser's first three years (two in HL, one in MVC) he is:

24-13 (8-10)
15-17 (7-11)
18-14 (8-10)
10-1 (0-0)

That's 67-45 overall (.598) and 23-31 in conference (.426).

The first three years were rough. Something like 32-69 with less than 10 conference wins.
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Re: MVC Games - Mon 12/4-Sun 12/10

Postby Khan4Cats » December 11th, 2017, 11:36 am

A lot of longer term Valley fans remember Moser from his stint at Illinois State and judge (pre-judged) him by that. He has definitely shown improvement and has built what appears to be a solid program for this year (with some good prospects still). As a UNI fan, he has certainly found a way to go toe to toe with the Panthers since joining the Valley. Still has to prove he can get above .500, but is trending in the right direction overall.
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Re: MVC Games - Mon 12/4-Sun 12/10

Postby Khan4Cats » December 11th, 2017, 11:47 am

BirdsEyeView wrote:So far I was dead wrong about the prospects of the UNI season (and I am very happy about that). I did not expect the progress of your Freshmen from last year, nor the incoming Freshman making that big of an impact like they all have. On paper, it looked bleak. Fortunately, they don't play games on paper.

Also, Carlson has become much more efficient on the offensive end than he was a year ago. Congrats to UNI.


So far so good. I know I was among several UNI fans arguing that UNI would still be in the top tier despite last years' results because of Jake's history of developing players and what we saw. I know a lot of fans just looked at losing Morgan as being a massive blow, but sometimes it seemed the whole team was waiting for Jeremy to do something last year. This year they are able to play into their roles, and the other thing Jake does in addition to developing players, is finding the right pieces to plug into place and making the sum greater than the individual parts. Still have two big tests before conference (iowa State (N) and home with Xavier). At least split those and we head into conference with a tremendous non-con (already been pretty good). We'll see how the grind of Valley play goes as those teams, minus Valpo, are familiar with us.
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Re: MVC Games - Mon 12/4-Sun 12/10

Postby ahunte1 » December 11th, 2017, 11:54 am

Khan4Cats wrote:A lot of longer term Valley fans remember Moser from his stint at Illinois State and judge (pre-judged) him by that. He has definitely shown improvement and has built what appears to be a solid program for this year (with some good prospects still). As a UNI fan, he has certainly found a way to go toe to toe with the Panthers since joining the Valley. Still has to prove he can get above .500, but is trending in the right direction overall.


Just wish we could beat SIU and Illinois State, too!
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Re: MVC Games - Mon 12/4-Sun 12/10

Postby uniftw » December 11th, 2017, 11:59 am

Khan4Cats wrote:So far so good. I know I was among several UNI fans arguing that UNI would still be in the top tier despite last years' results because of Jake's history of developing players and what we saw. I know a lot of fans just looked at losing Morgan as being a massive blow, but sometimes it seemed the whole team was waiting for Jeremy to do something last year. This year they are able to play into their roles, and the other thing Jake does in addition to developing players, is finding the right pieces to plug into place and making the sum greater than the individual parts. Still have two big tests before conference (iowa State (N) and home with Xavier). At least split those and we head into conference with a tremendous non-con (already been pretty good). We'll see how the grind of Valley play goes as those teams, minus Valpo, are familiar with us.

This was something I argued over the off season. Jake's systems aren't built on one player taking over like Jeremy did. J-Mo did what J-Mo had to do, but you could just see the rest of the team default to him. Never really seemed comfortable outside of getting him the ball. Once could argue Washpun was the same time of "ball hawk" on offense, but it was different. The ball was in his hand with screens, cuts, and movement to open a lane for him to drive and kick. J-Mo was more of a stalled offense.

Washpun was very similar to Kwadzo in that regard. The ball was always in his hands all the time. He actively sought to have it in his hands. It wasn't in his hands to stay in his hands like we saw with J-Mo. It was in his hands to create.

Playing last year with a true freshman at PG with a rFr, another true freshman, a JUCO walk-on that was supposed to redshirt and a grad transfer wasn't supposed to be how the back court got matched up with J-Mo.
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Re: MVC Games - Mon 12/4-Sun 12/10

Postby BradleyFan71 » December 11th, 2017, 12:34 pm

scotte101 wrote:The roster we have this season is incredible and I expect a lot of wins, but to me anything short of the NCAA tourney is a failure.


Why is this? Missouri State tied with Bradley for 6th place last season. I have yet to hear any Bradley fans make such a statement.
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Re: MVC Games - Mon 12/4-Sun 12/10

Postby scotte101 » December 11th, 2017, 1:20 pm

BradleyFan71 wrote:
scotte101 wrote:The roster we have this season is incredible and I expect a lot of wins, but to me anything short of the NCAA tourney is a failure.


Why is this? Missouri State tied with Bradley for 6th place last season. I have yet to hear any Bradley fans make such a statement.


In no certain order:

MSU was picked to win the conference.
We have a great roster loaded with upperclassmen.
We have a potential NBA draft pick on our team.
Wichita is no longer in the conference.
I want them to. lol

Without winning in STL, I think Lusk is shown the door barring season changing events (injury, mid season departures, etc) happening between now and then. In my mind, there is no excuse left.
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Re: MVC Games - Mon 12/4-Sun 12/10

Postby uniftw » December 11th, 2017, 2:02 pm

scotte101 wrote:In no certain order:
MSU was picked to win the conference.
We have a great roster loaded with upperclassmen.
We have a potential NBA draft pick on our team.
Wichita is no longer in the conference.

Other than the NBA player that sounds like a bunch of wishful maroon colored thinking

Yes, you have 10 JRs and SRs, but to call them a great/loaded roster is objectively a stretch. I'll grant you Alize but:

Rousseau left the the team last season. He was a nice, above average player before he left the team at 11 points 2 boards 3 assists
Rhodes was average, at best. Shot 42% as a forward. 7 points 3 boards
J.T. Miller wasn't on the roster but appears to be a slightly above average player
Bhullar averaged like 2 points per game at 7'2 in the WAC

Dixon was average to slightly above average at 8 points 2 boards
Kreklow is a good/average MVC player
Church is slighly above average to good
Scurry and Burd are JUCO transfers

MSU being picked to win the conference was based on a S ton of speculation that Lusk could actually coach a team and develop athletes in to basketball players. Something he hasn't been able to show he can do.

MSU has as much/less proven players on their roster as UNI does and UNI was poo pooed by literally everyone outside of Cedar Falls because of how unproven the team was without Morgan.

I've been pleasantly surprised by the number of wins the conference has this year OOC. It's a good thing. There are some losses though that just leave me in complete awe though. ORU and NDSU in the same season? I know MSU got NDSU back, but at home to NDSU is mind bottling.

Even Valpo's loss to Purdue. It's not that they lost. It's how they lost.

Things certainly don't look as dark as they did before the season, but a bunch of teams have a ton to prove yet....including my Panthers.
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