Updated 1/6/18: MVC Expansion Poll

Discuss the MVC hoops season here.

Choose two: Who do you think the MVC should add?

Murray State
62
46%
Northern Kentucky
25
19%
UW-Milwaukee
7
5%
Oakland
1
1%
South Dakota State
5
4%
Southeast Missouri State
1
1%
Belmont
19
14%
Grand Canyon
6
4%
UT-Arlington
5
4%
Denver
4
3%
 
Total votes : 135

Re: Updated 1/6/18: MVC Expansion Poll

Postby TOPSTRAIGHT » February 11th, 2018, 4:39 pm

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Re: Updated 1/6/18: MVC Expansion Poll

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Re: Updated 1/6/18: MVC Expansion Poll

Postby VUGrad1314 » February 12th, 2018, 12:39 pm

NKU just drew a bit shy of 6500 for their game against Green Bay. If they defeat Wright State this week they'll have a stranglehold on the Horizon League regular season title (2 up with 3 to play). If Belmont says no again I'm thinking we need to bring this team aboard. This feels like everything everyone wants to see out of Grand Canyon except the potential is really being realized.
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Re: Updated 1/6/18: MVC Expansion Poll

Postby VUGrad1314 » February 13th, 2018, 8:44 pm

Here's some average attendance numbers for two schools that may be on the MVC's radar now or in the future: NKU and Wright State.

NKU: 4099 An increase of over 40% from last year. They still have their Senior Night Game remaining.

Wright State: 4101 They still have a nationally televised battle for first place and their Senior Night Game so this number has a chance to be much higher.

Not sure what the numbers for Murray State are but I bet they're similar or better than this.

Belmont is probably still in that 2500-3000 range.
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Re: Updated 1/6/18: MVC Expansion Poll

Postby Norsefan92 » February 14th, 2018, 11:08 am

Hello everyone I just thought you might want to hear from an NKU fan in regards to how we would feel about joining the MVC. I first want to state that this is solely my opinion and not anyone else's or the universities but I do run norsereport.com which is a fan blog for the mens basketball team.

NKU had a very rich tradition at the division II level as they finished national runner up twice in the 90's and pretty much made the division II tournament every year. The Woman's program had been the Universities flagship program though as they had won two national championships and had the winningest coach in division II history in Nancy Winstel. The transition to division I was something that had been in the works for a while and the ultimate goal had been to get into the Horizon League. It was a league that made sense for NKU geographically as it is probably the cheapest for NKU in terms of travel and their are some schools that we played at the division II level a while back.

When we first went Division I a lot of rumors swirled about where we would go and it sounds like it really came down to The Summit League, the Atlantic Sun and the OVC. The Horizon League would not take a team that was transitioning straight from Division II but I think once we completed the transition they were ready to take us. The OVC came pretty close to happening but they voted against NKU because they thought we had an unfair recruiting advantage being in a big city and having a brand new facility. I believe the other Kentucky schools wanted NKU to join but the other schools did not. The Summit League was going to be more expensive so we went to the Atlantic Sun to transition to Division I. That was never the league we wanted to be in long term. The goal always seemed to be the Horizon League.

So it was not a surprise when a few years later we went to the Horizon League. Obviously the league had taken a step back with the loss of Butler but it was still a good geographical fit and was cost effective. The league has taken a step back and the loss of Valparaiso and the addition of IUPUI has not helped that issue. Despite that I think NKU is happy in the Horizon League. We have only been in the league for a few seasons and have had quick success. The fan base is rapidly growing because of that success and the local media is jumping on board. We have our own beer made by the local brewery Braxton Brewery, the local bar and grill chain Barleycorns made a Norse Burger. There is a lot of that kind of stuff that is occurring now and it is all because of the recent success.

So this is where I get to my point lol. The success and growth in popularity of NKU is very recent. There is a lot of room to grow as this region is a basketball hot bed and Northern Kentucky is its own distinct region. There are a lot of grads in the area that rooted for other teams because NKU was DII but now are jumping on the bandwagon. So most people feel there is potential for NKU to really grow and eventually succeed in a higher conference. But I think most of us think it is too soon to make that jump. We need to have some consistent success at a lower level to build up that fan base to a higher level. I think most of us are content to be a top tier team in the Horizon League for a few seasons and consistently get to the tournament first. Once we have established ourselves at that level then I think we would be ready to make the jump but I think people want some consistency first. Especially because we would be worried that going from a dominant team in a weaker conference to being a middle of the pack team in a top tier conference would hurt the growth of our fan base. That is our primary concern with moving up to the Valley. I think we all understand it would be a huge step up in quality and would bring more national recognition by joining. I just think NKU is at a point where the building of a fan base is so early that we want to help it grow by playing in an easier conference first.

The second major point about moving up is that state of Kentucky is really shredding the budgets for higher education. The Governor announced some pretty significant cuts on top of the states failing pension system that will see NKU contributing a ridiculously high share. This is resulting in some major budget cuts this year. I would imagine it would be hard to pitch to the board of regents that we need to pay a bunch of money to leave the Horizon League and a bunch of money to join the MVC when we are in the midst of drastic budget cuts. So not to throw water on your enthusiasm for NKU joining the MVC but I think most people in the Northern Kentucky/Cincinnati region would find it doubtful that NKU would join in the near future.
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Re: Updated 1/6/18: MVC Expansion Poll

Postby BCPanther » February 14th, 2018, 11:48 am

Thanks for chiming in. Good to hear that perspective.

The problem for you becomes, its now or never and The Valley is probably your ceiling as an athletic department. If The Valley is the long term goal, you have to come now. If the Valley were to offer you the 12th spot and you said no, there isn't going to be another opening anytime soon unless UNI or Illinois State scratch the FBS itch.

There are several departments that would give their left nut to get a Valley invite. NKU has become my realistic favorite since it just doesn't feel like there is an apetite to go get New Mexico State and simlutaineously kill the WAC. The timing is never perfect but you would regret passing on the invite and being stuck in the Horizon League for the next 20 years when you had the chance to get out and get to a much higher level incredibly stable league.

12 is happening. The contracts with Scottrade Center and TaxSlayer Center (Moline) call for 4 games Thursday, 4 games Friday, 2 games Saturday amd 1 game Sunday starting next year.
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Re: Updated 1/6/18: MVC Expansion Poll

Postby Norsefan92 » February 14th, 2018, 12:18 pm

I guess I would want to know. How much does it cost to join the Valley?
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Re: Updated 1/6/18: MVC Expansion Poll

Postby BCPanther » February 14th, 2018, 12:23 pm

Norsefan92 wrote:I guess I would want to know. How much does it cost to join the Valley?


I don't believe there is a lump sum to be paid but you get reduced shares of NCAA money for the first 5 years, if memory serves.
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Re: Updated 1/6/18: MVC Expansion Poll

Postby Norsefan92 » February 14th, 2018, 12:30 pm

Okay that may be more palatable. I believe the exit fee for the Horizon League is $500,000 which is not ridiculous. The main issue as I said is that NKU is facing down a $10 million to $26 million budget cut this summer. So there are some pretty dramatic cuts that are coming to the university so it may not be a great PR move to do that while also paying money to switch conferences after 3 seasons. It will be interesting to see what happens. I have no idea what the athletic department is thinking though. I would imagine it would be hard to pass up an offer to join a better league. I do think it could help them keep Brannen longer as a coach with the step up in national recognition. It will be a tough call because I think there are a lot of people who would be content to just be a dominant program at a lower level like a Belmont.
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Re: Updated 1/6/18: MVC Expansion Poll

Postby GoSIU88 » February 14th, 2018, 12:45 pm

Norsefan92 wrote:Okay that may be more palatable. I believe the exit fee for the Horizon League is $500,000 which is not ridiculous. The main issue as I said is that NKU is facing down a $10 million to $26 million budget cut this summer. So there are some pretty dramatic cuts that are coming to the university so it may not be a great PR move to do that while also paying money to switch conferences after 3 seasons. It will be interesting to see what happens. I have no idea what the athletic department is thinking though. I would imagine it would be hard to pass up an offer to join a better league. I do think it could help them keep Brannen longer as a coach with the step up in national recognition. It will be a tough call because I think there are a lot of people who would be content to just be a dominant program at a lower level like a Belmont.


I remember some amazing battles between NKU and USI a long time ago....USI won the regional that NKU hosted the year they won the NCAA
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Re: Updated 1/6/18: MVC Expansion Poll

Postby UNDfan » February 14th, 2018, 10:25 pm

SDSU and Denver will not be going to the MVC regardless of what this forum thinks.

The Dakota schools are simply tired of being MVC wannabes when they have more support and better academics than most of the MVC.

Once the Summit loses IPFW to the Horizon, the Summit will be in real trouble because it needs to sponsor men's soccer and baseball. IPFW is a key school for that reason. UND is joining the Summit and they actually dropped baseball expressly to make expansion needed.

What will happen is the Summit will add Montana St, Montana, Idaho and Weber St and make fb a Summit sport, and maybe even elevate it to FBS.

So the Summit schools will be:
North Dakota
NDSU
SDSU
USD
Omaha
Denver
Weber St
Montana St
Montana
Idaho

IPFW, ORU (the WAC or MVC?) and W Ill ( the OVC or Horizon?) will not want to be part of that league.

The MVC will no longer have a conference in its footprint where schools are begging to get out.

The Horizon commish has actually talked about going to 14 schools because he knows the Summit will not be a stepping stone league anymore.

The Summit will become a power league rivaling the MAC and MVC. Denver and Omaha want UND in because hockey is those three main sports and a cash cow. Idaho and the Montana's like a football centered league without Big Sky commuter schools. Weber St will want it for basketball and the overall upgrade. The Montanas would only have three flights in the conference to get to the Dakota's, Omaha, and Denver, which is much less than they have now. Moreover, FBS is enticing because playing Utah, Fresno St, Washington, Oregon, and Stanford is much more enticing than the Big Sky opponents in those regions that are almost always broke.

When they XDSU's first tried to get into a DI conference, it was the Big Sky all the way, but the Montana's didn't have the votas. When a Summit and MVFC opportunity came up, which wasn't the XDSU's preference, the MVFC imposed large exit fees on them because they knew how bad the XDSU's wanted to associate with the Montanas.
Now the Summit for the first time will become one large happy family, and UND is the only one that has been a partner for all the schools.

The MVFC has to get more football schools. Murray St is a given and Robert Morris may want in. RMU will probably get a Horizon invite as they have a new arena coming up. Maybe you can beg the Horizon to take W Illinois too, so they stay in the MVFC.

The MVC created this conundrum because of the private school cabal that hates football. Good luck.
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Re: Updated 1/6/18: MVC Expansion Poll

Postby MissouriValleyUnite » February 15th, 2018, 12:41 am

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Re: Updated 1/6/18: MVC Expansion Poll

Postby BCPanther » February 15th, 2018, 8:47 am

UNDfan wrote:SDSU and Denver will not be going to the MVC regardless of what this forum thinks.

The Dakota schools are simply tired of being MVC wannabes when they have more support and better academics than most of the MVC.

Once the Summit loses IPFW to the Horizon, the Summit will be in real trouble because it needs to sponsor men's soccer and baseball. IPFW is a key school for that reason. UND is joining the Summit and they actually dropped baseball expressly to make expansion needed.

What will happen is the Summit will add Montana St, Montana, Idaho and Weber St and make fb a Summit sport, and maybe even elevate it to FBS.

So the Summit schools will be:
North Dakota
NDSU
SDSU
USD
Omaha
Denver
Weber St
Montana St
Montana
Idaho

IPFW, ORU (the WAC or MVC?) and W Ill ( the OVC or Horizon?) will not want to be part of that league.

The MVC will no longer have a conference in its footprint where schools are begging to get out.

The Horizon commish has actually talked about going to 14 schools because he knows the Summit will not be a stepping stone league anymore.

The Summit will become a power league rivaling the MAC and MVC. Denver and Omaha want UND in because hockey is those three main sports and a cash cow. Idaho and the Montana's like a football centered league without Big Sky commuter schools. Weber St will want it for basketball and the overall upgrade. The Montanas would only have three flights in the conference to get to the Dakota's, Omaha, and Denver, which is much less than they have now. Moreover, FBS is enticing because playing Utah, Fresno St, Washington, Oregon, and Stanford is much more enticing than the Big Sky opponents in those regions that are almost always broke.

When they XDSU's first tried to get into a DI conference, it was the Big Sky all the way, but the Montana's didn't have the votas. When a Summit and MVFC opportunity came up, which wasn't the XDSU's preference, the MVFC imposed large exit fees on them because they knew how bad the XDSU's wanted to associate with the Montanas.
Now the Summit for the first time will become one large happy family, and UND is the only one that has been a partner for all the schools.

The MVFC has to get more football schools. Murray St is a given and Robert Morris may want in. RMU will probably get a Horizon invite as they have a new arena coming up. Maybe you can beg the Horizon to take W Illinois too, so they stay in the MVFC.

The MVC created this conundrum because of the private school cabal that hates football. Good luck.


I'm just going to go ahead an assume you've been drinking. That's the only logical explanation for this. Every single Dakota school would give their left nut to get into the Valley, except MAYBE UND because Hockey has to have a home.

Bonus points to you for the ol' 'Summit League Football' talking point.
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