Updated 1/6/18: MVC Expansion Poll

[BCPanther]

So here is my question.

Why are we hell bent on a 12 team league?

Look at Conference USA and a few other leagues that used to be comparable. Now they have 12-14 teams and they suck. It’s still a 1 bid league with just a lot more teams.

C-USA failed because more than half its members jumped to the American. They then had to fill in the rest of their conference with Sun Belt teams. Middle Tennessee and Western Kentucky were the only good additions from the Belt. UNT and the Florida schools are a real drag on the conference now. UTEP has fallen off a cliff and is no longer competitive. You can't compare adding some programs like Murray St to programs like FIU and FAU that average less than 1000 fans per home game and haven't been relevant in basketball... ever.

C-USA is driven by Football. The MVC is driven by Basketball. Football conferences need 12 for a Championship game. The Valley doesn't need 12 for basketball. They could add Murray St and have a 20 game round-robin conference schedule. Everything else could be worked out. Women's B-ball & V-ball and travel partners should not be the reason we add a 12th team that might not be ready for the jump.

The jury is still out on our latest addition. They finished dead last, have terrible facilities and seem to have little fan support or enthusiasm! Let's move more deliberately with #12

I think there will be some buyer's remorse on Valpo and soon. The ceiling is middle of the pack, they have terrible, terrible facilities and the Drews aren't coming back.

UNI has played Volleyball in that 'arena' when it was 110 degrees and it was almost 90 degrees in there the other night because they had a warm day and no A/C. I also think the high school style concession stands at floor level at the base of the bleachers are a nice touch. That builiding either has to be replaced or redone quickly, it makes the Knapp Center look like a palace. The Dome was terrible for basketball but at least is was a college building with climate control.

Murray should have been the add last summer but football got in the way. Add Murray now and you have to go to 12 because you can't hang the women and more specifically Missouri State out to dry. Volleyball produces enough revenue at about half the league's schools to justify it as a major sport that must be taken care of as we look at the future.

[MissouriValleyUnite]

Valparaiso has little support this year because they’re in last place. If they’re winning, Valpo has one of the louder mid major environments. (See: this game against Saint Mary’s.)
https://youtu.be/Y-5QzOSVS2Q

Crusaders had a better 5 year rolling KenPom average than anyone in MVC (sans Northern Iowa) with a recent NIT title game. It might just be Lottich isn’t the answer.

[Blers]

Valparaiso had a young team this year and I think they have a ton of upside. I agree the facility needs to be improved but they have a good name brand and recruit well (book Javon Freeman for at least the all freshman team). Evelyn is a stud as well. We won 10 games our first year but they've been far more competitive with the jump. I definitely expect them to make their way up the ranks before long.

[VUGrad1314]

Bash the facilities all you want You can even criticize the fanbase for poor attendance but you're treating Valpo like they're some kind of terrible program that got lucky for a few years. That's just not true. This is just our third losing season since 1993, we've won 20+ games 15 times in that span. 14 League titles. And just one fewer tournament win all time than Missouri State Illinois State and Murray State between 2010-11 and last year we amassed 171 victories for an average of over 24 wins per year failing to reach the 22 win mark just once in that span all in a conference that never ranked lower than 17th in RPI. Murray State's OVC where the Racers have been impressive wishes it could be that strong consistently. Along the way we beat teams like Belmont Murray State Rhode Island Alabama BYU Florida State Oregon State and St Mary's in just the last three years leading up to this season. Yes we had a bad year but we also had lost (I believe) the greatest amount of PPG of any team in the MVC had (by far) the youngest roster had to learn every team in our new League and everything about it while using a roster built to go against Horizon League competition and a young coach still learning the ropes. On top of all that we had injuries and illnessesthat cost multiple games to Tevonn Walker and John Kiser as well as Joe Burton washing out academically. Despite all of that we STILL beat every team in the top half of the MVC except Loyola and lost 5 MVC games by 7 points or less. Also our 5 wins eclipsed Loyola's first year total of four and no less than their own coach acknowledged that we are ahead of where they were after year one in the MVC. I'll go ahead and trust his opinion. How soon we forget that it took Loyola until their fifth year (this year) to get above.500 in MVC play. As for attendance if my memory serves we are still going to outdraw the MVC champions despite a terrible season by our program's standards. I think there's a good chance that we'll do just fine here in the MVC one day hopefully very soon.

[VU2014]

LMFAO. Some of you guys were laughing at Loyola when they came into the League and now they are the cream of the crop in the MVC 5 years later.

Have "buyers remorse" now and then in a few years when we're near the top of the league you can have a good laugh at yourself.

Valpo was ALWAYS going to be in a rebuild year this year and that doubled down when we lost a former Top 100 recruit literally right before Conference play started which really hurt us. He was arguably the most talented player, 2nd leading scorer and just as important the 3rd most experienced player on the roster. We have 9(!) underclassmen on this team and most of this team never played together before this season. This is one of the least experienced teams in the nation. Also factor in Valpo graduated 3 professional players last season. 1 NBA player and 2 other pros playing in Europe.

Chill out and use some common sense. Trust me Valpo fans are as disappointed about this season as anyone else, but we can also rationalize why we struggled this season. I have confidence it will get better but it's a process. It may not be the prettiest games at times but Valpo has seen 7 of their past 9 losses come by single-digits. This team is learning and is slowly improving while adjusting to MVC play.

[VUGrad1314]

Valparaiso had a young team this year and I think they have a ton of upside. I agree the facility needs to be improved but they have a good name brand and recruit well (book Javon Freeman for at least the all freshman team). Evelyn is a stud as well. We won 10 games our first year but they've been far more competitive with the jump. I definitely expect them to make their way up the ranks before long.

Valparaiso has little support this year because they’re in last place. If they’re winning, Valpo has one of the louder mid major environments. (See: this game against Saint Mary’s.)
https://youtu.be/Y-5QzOSVS2Q

Crusaders had a better 5 year rolling KenPom average than anyone in MVC (sans Northern Iowa) with a recent NIT title game. It might just be Lottich isn’t the answer.

Thanks for the backup you guys. Blers, I hope you know that when I was not intending to bash Loyola when I compared their year one situation to ours. Just trying to State facts that back up my argument. Congratulations on a great season and I hope that your Ramblers kick some major P5 behind in the tourney whether you get in as the auto bid or an at-large. (I think you've got the resume as long as you make the finals and don't get blown out ultimately I think that's what kept Illinois State out last year. They got blown out by the Shockers in that final).

Ah the NIT run. I firmly believe that team could have won at least 1-2 games in the dance. What a special group. That defense in the second half of the St Mary's game was incredible. Simultaneously one of the most enjoyable and upsetting seasons I can remember. Enjoyable because that team was amazing upsetting because we didn't get to prove ourselves in the tourney. If you'd like to see it I have a comparison between 2017 Illinois State and 2018 Loyola that I can post here. Personally I think Loyola compares favorably to last year's Illinois State team and would probably get in where the Redbirds could not.

[RamblerFan]

Anyone who doesnt think Valpo is a good add has had their head in the sand for a LONG time. Thank goodness the selection committee is able to act with the foresight that some of the longer tenured Valley fans seem to lack. Does Valpo need new facilities? Sure, but they're getting Valley money now and have been successful for a long time without them.

[VUGrad1314]

I would also like to gently remind any UNI fans that wish to get on Valpo for one tough year that they are 28-31 overall and 15-20 in MVC Play since they found themselves on the wrong end of one of the greatest postseason collapses in tournament history when they choked away that game against Texas A&M in March of 2016. Now I respect the UNI program a great deal and your team was one of the first I mentioned when I listed the reasons why I was excited to see VU join the MVC. Given your history I am certain the program will be back to it's winning ways in no time. I am simply suggesting that now may not be the best point in your history to be criticizing and taking shots at other programs as even your facilities have proven unable to prevent a couple of very down seasons.

[freddycat68]

Valpo will be fine. Most teams struggle when joining the Valley. It's a much tougher league than most think it is, and there's some culture shock when newbies come in. I was one who thought Valpo would finish lower division this year for that reason alone. (Ahem, and I was right.) But they will be fine, and it's way too early for Valpo fans to turn on Coach L. The next couple years will probably belong to BU and SIU and maybe ISU if they can avoid defections. Loyola probably comes back down to earth but will also challenge. It's going to be an Illinois-school-dominated league for a while. But Valpo will be in the mix, and they were a great add. And ala Drake this year, someone will come out of nowhere.

This league is nuts, and there is no shame in VU feeling its way around for a while.

[VUGrad1314]

Getting back to the original thread topic, the Murray State board is again buzzing with rumors of a forthcoming invite, this after they have wrestled first place from Belmont and set up a "can clinch with win" scenario for their final game.

One has to wonder whether Belmont's mind can be changed given the events of this season. They scheduled about as well as a team can schedule and yet they may not even get an NIT bid. They may need to win the OVC Tournament to avoid the CBI\CIT. The Bruins were really hurt by the down year in the Horizon League, Vanderbilt falling off, getting swept by Lipscomb, blowing two big chances at P5\BE wins against Washington and Providence, and tripping up in conference play. Meanwhile, the MVC showed great resiliency as the conference surged from 12th to 8th in RPI and may have a legitimate at-large candidate in Loyola if the Ramblers don't win in St Louis. While they would clearly benefit from a move to the MVC their decision to move their men's soccer team to the SOCON may speak volumes about their intentions especially with the Racers seemingly poised to vacate the premises and leave Belmont to potentially go on a Gonzaga or Kansas like run in the OVC.

Similar to Murray State, in-state rival and possible MVC target Northern Kentucky set up a win and clinch scenario following an unexpected loss to IUPUI by Wright State as the Norse doused the formerly torrid Flames of UIC 79-72. Succeeding in Indianapolis where the Raiders failed today will allow NKU to claim that mantle once held by Valparaiso, which left the Horizon League for the MVC this past July.

One may perhaps be alarmed by the rumors of significant cuts to higher education in Kentucky and the impact that may have on athletic budgets, but Murray State surely has the program and the fan support to weather this storm, and NKU, which sits just a few miles south of Cincinnati is in a prosperous region and is building a strong and passionate fanbase that will no doubt be energized by a move to the MVC. Fans of opposing teams will come away most impressed by the facilities the Norse can boast, particularly BB&T Arena.

I also wonder if SLU may be rethinking their stance on the MVC in light of the down year the A10 endured coupled with the success Loyola--a fellow Jesuit school--and indeed the Valley as a whole enjoyed. However, Father Harry said at last check that the two parties have not discussed a reunion, and I trust his word.