2018 MVC - Week 3

Discuss the MVC hoops season here.

Re: 2018 MVC - Week 3

Postby freddycat68 » January 10th, 2018, 1:15 pm

Without doing a lick of research, I am rather confident both ISUr and UNI had a tougher non-conference schedule than what they both face in the Valley slate[/quote]

I'm sure the UNI fans are thankful that tough schedule prepared them for the conference season.[/quote]

I was going to make this point, but you beat me to it. Pretty silly to say UNI's OOC (against which they had an 8-4 record) was tougher than the MVC (0-4). But what do actual results have to do with anything?
freddycat68
MVC Bench Warmer
MVC Bench Warmer
 
Posts: 34
Joined: November 9th, 2013, 9:09 pm

Re: 2018 MVC - Week 3

Sponsor

Sponsor
 

Re: 2018 MVC - Week 3

Postby BirdsEyeView » January 10th, 2018, 1:25 pm

freddycat68 wrote:Without doing a lick of research, I am rather confident both ISUr and UNI had a tougher non-conference schedule than what they both face in the Valley slate


I'm sure the UNI fans are thankful that tough schedule prepared them for the conference season.[/quote]

I was going to make this point, but you beat me to it. Pretty silly to say UNI's OOC (against which they had an 8-4 record) was tougher than the MVC (0-4). But what do actual results have to do with anything?[/quote]

Your line of reasoning is asinine.

So if we played Duke and beat them in nonconference when we played the game of our lives, while they played the worst game....but then a month later lose to Drake, that means our MVC conference slate is harder?
Give me a break.

Team performance can and does impact results. Clearly UNI was playing well in November and half of December, but now suck. Doesnt mean their schedule is harder in MVC.

EDIT: Real example...UNI beats SMU in early November when they were playing well, but then lose to Bradley as they are playing like crap. Is Bradley then better than SMU?

Mind you SMU is #34 in KenPom and Bradley #120
BirdsEyeView
MVC Hall Of Famer
MVC Hall Of Famer
 
Posts: 1495
Joined: February 28th, 2014, 12:51 pm

Re: 2018 MVC - Week 3

Postby BradleyFan71 » January 10th, 2018, 2:19 pm

BirdsEyeView wrote:Your line of reasoning is asinine.

So if we played Duke and beat them in nonconference when we played the game of our lives, while they played the worst game....but then a month later lose to Drake, that means our MVC conference slate is harder?
Give me a break.

Team performance can and does impact results. Clearly UNI was playing well in November and half of December, but now suck. Doesnt mean their schedule is harder in MVC.

EDIT: Real example...UNI beats SMU in early November when they were playing well, but then lose to Bradley as they are playing like crap. Is Bradley then better than SMU?

Mind you SMU is #34 in KenPom and Bradley #120


I totally get that, but I also believe one of the silliest ideas in sports is that a non-conference schedule has any bearing whatsoever to do with conference results.
User avatar
BradleyFan71
MVC Role Player
MVC Role Player
 
Posts: 161
Joined: October 5th, 2013, 11:19 pm

Re: 2018 MVC - Week 3

Postby Bear4Life » January 10th, 2018, 2:48 pm

Your line of reasoning is asinine.

So if we played Duke and beat them in nonconference when we played the game of our lives, while they played the worst game....but then a month later lose to Drake, that means our MVC conference slate is harder?
Give me a break.

Team performance can and does impact results. Clearly UNI was playing well in November and half of December, but now suck. Doesnt mean their schedule is harder in MVC.

EDIT: Real example...UNI beats SMU in early November when they were playing well, but then lose to Bradley as they are playing like crap. Is Bradley then better than SMU?

Mind you SMU is #34 in KenPom and Bradley #120


I would contend that Bradley on their home floor is pretty damn comparable to SMU on a neutral floor honestly...

While I think UNI played a solid schedule and did a decent job in the non-con they clearly are having more trouble in the Valley against teams that know their style. The challenge that UNI is running into is that the Valley as a whole is a lot stronger this year...I wouldn't just dismiss this as UNI "slumping". I am starting to think they just don't have enough this year.

At this point, UNI is going to have to really play well just to avoid Thursday. This isn't the typical MVC season, a lot of teams are going to finish in that 7-11 win range...I love Jacobson, but do you see UNI going 8-6 the rest of the way?
Bear4Life
MVC Bench Warmer
MVC Bench Warmer
 
Posts: 62
Joined: January 13th, 2011, 2:25 pm
Location: Kansas City, MO

Re: 2018 MVC - Week 3

Postby bufan741777 » January 10th, 2018, 3:37 pm

Bear4Life wrote:I would contend that Bradley on their home floor is pretty damn comparable to SMU on a neutral floor honestly...

While I think UNI played a solid schedule and did a decent job in the non-con they clearly are having more trouble in the Valley against teams that know their style. The challenge that UNI is running into is that the Valley as a whole is a lot stronger this year...I wouldn't just dismiss this as UNI "slumping". I am starting to think they just don't have enough this year.

At this point, UNI is going to have to really play well just to avoid Thursday. This isn't the typical MVC season, a lot of teams are going to finish in that 7-11 win range...I love Jacobson, but do you see UNI going 8-6 the rest of the way?


I think that IF UNI turns their play around for the better they could go 7-7 in the last 14 games. Like you said, teams are really close talent wise this year so I don't see them getting out of that Thursday spot.
bufan741777
MVC Role Player
MVC Role Player
 
Posts: 106
Joined: January 1st, 2018, 8:22 pm

Re: 2018 MVC - Week 3

Postby BirdsEyeView » January 10th, 2018, 3:47 pm

BradleyFan71 wrote:
BirdsEyeView wrote:Your line of reasoning is asinine.

So if we played Duke and beat them in nonconference when we played the game of our lives, while they played the worst game....but then a month later lose to Drake, that means our MVC conference slate is harder?
Give me a break.

Team performance can and does impact results. Clearly UNI was playing well in November and half of December, but now suck. Doesnt mean their schedule is harder in MVC.

EDIT: Real example...UNI beats SMU in early November when they were playing well, but then lose to Bradley as they are playing like crap. Is Bradley then better than SMU?

Mind you SMU is #34 in KenPom and Bradley #120


I totally get that, but I also believe one of the silliest ideas in sports is that a non-conference schedule has any bearing whatsoever to do with conference results.


Subjective opinion there. However, my initial response had nothing to do with this. Only replying to Freddycat who said "The same can be said for any Valley team." in response to Bradley entering the tough part of their schedule.

I just said UNI and ISUr played a harder noncon schedule than what they will face in the MVC. You are twisting this into how important a hard noncon schedule really is.
BirdsEyeView
MVC Hall Of Famer
MVC Hall Of Famer
 
Posts: 1495
Joined: February 28th, 2014, 12:51 pm

Re: 2018 MVC - Week 3

Postby BirdsEyeView » January 10th, 2018, 4:18 pm

Bear4Life wrote:
I wouldn't just dismiss this as UNI "slumping". I am starting to think they just don't have enough this year.


I could have told you that in preseason. Everyone fell in love with the coach, not the players.
BirdsEyeView
MVC Hall Of Famer
MVC Hall Of Famer
 
Posts: 1495
Joined: February 28th, 2014, 12:51 pm

Re: 2018 MVC - Week 3

Postby Dansen » January 10th, 2018, 4:30 pm

BirdsEyeView wrote:
I could have told you that in preseason. Everyone fell in love with the coach, not the players.


It would be interesting to see where a coach is effective. I could see that a "good coach" like Jacobsen is more effective OOC as well as in postseason against opponents that do not know their system as well. It would make sense then that in conference play a team with a good coach, but less talent would be exposed more because the opposing team has a better understanding of what is coming.

The more I think about it, this theory (combined with veteran guard play) could also explain Medved's success, he is not as well known yet. Just a theory (Not a knock on Medved, I think he is a great coach)

TLDR:
Coaching has a bigger impact in OOC and postseason, talent tends to rise up in conference
Dansen
MVC Recruit
MVC Recruit
 
Posts: 23
Joined: June 29th, 2017, 12:15 pm

Re: 2018 MVC - Week 3

Postby bufan741777 » January 10th, 2018, 4:55 pm

The first Valley game of the day features an 0-4 UNI team in search of their first victory since December 10th on the road against 2-2 ISUb team. ISUb's only losses have came against ISUr and Drake.

57.89% of MVCFANS predict ISUb to come out victorious today.
bufan741777
MVC Role Player
MVC Role Player
 
Posts: 106
Joined: January 1st, 2018, 8:22 pm

Re: 2018 MVC - Week 3

Postby MissouriValleyUnite » January 10th, 2018, 5:04 pm

Dansen wrote:
BirdsEyeView wrote:
I could have told you that in preseason. Everyone fell in love with the coach, not the players.


It would be interesting to see where a coach is effective. I could see that a "good coach" like Jacobsen is more effective OOC as well as in postseason against opponents that do not know their system as well. It would make sense then that in conference play a team with a good coach, but less talent would be exposed more because the opposing team has a better understanding of what is coming.


Great point that explains 2011 title game.

Connecticut (national champion) went 9-9 in Big East but undefeated otherwise. Great coaching (Calhoun) was the difference when they played non-BE elite teams.

Butler (national runnerup) started 5-5 in the Horizon. Once they played unfamiliar teams who didn’t spend months scouting Butler, Stevens took over.
User avatar
MissouriValleyUnite
All MVC
All MVC
 
Posts: 469
Joined: February 10th, 2014, 9:59 am

PreviousNext

Return to Missouri Valley Conference Basketball

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: smidge34, underdawg and 10 guests