Our good friends Wichita...

[glm38]

You say "coin flip" determines the fate of games. I say the better teams generally find a way to win those games. My Bearsrgin. That's not because we were unlucky or I'll fated. It's because we were bad.

I'm not saying the AAC is a bad league at all. Just that it was a bit overrated. And that was proven in the big dance.

Overrated as compared to...? Were they the 10th best conference as opposed to the 7th? What teams would you put in front of Cincy? You don’t think Houston is a top 25 team? Wichita State was not top 10, I concede that point. These tournament results just aren’t screaming overrated to me though.

Overrated means just that? 3 teams in the top 25 and all 3 lose in the first or second game. That's not a difficult concept.

[AndShock]

Overrated means just that? 3 teams in the top 25 and all 3 lose in the first or second game. That's not a difficult concept.

So you don’t think Cincy or Houston are top 25 teams? Or Wichita State wasn’t a top 25 team last year? Or our undefeated season? I guess we can agree to disagree on this one.

[Mikovio]

I'm actually disappointed Loyola won't get the chance to knock off Cincy. Would've been (more) poetic.

[BirdsEyeView]

This "worst team we've had in years" theory is such a cop out. What a joke.

Excuses. Excuses. Jans was gone for a few years, I think even when you went undefeated in the regular season he was gone. He does NOT make that big of a difference!

Accept it for what it is...you greatly underachieved in a season full of hope to make the Final Four again. Don't make excuses.

[VUGrad1314]

Generally speaking, the top teams in one tier of conferences can compete with those from the next tier up. It's not entirely inconceivable that the best team in the MVC or the Mountain West can beat the best team in the AAC as happened tonight. One glance at those teams RPIs tells us that. Let's also remember that the MVC's tournament record over the past quarter century is still under .500, despite all if the impressive runs teams have gone on. This underscores how hard it is to win tournament games. That's why teams that can do it consistently get so much respect and get invited to tougher conferences. Anything can happen in a one-off game. Better teams, like Virginia and Wichita State, can be done in by hot shooting. A big reason Houston lost to Michigan--a loss that should surprise no one as the Wolverines won the Big 10 Tournament--was because Rob Gray was just okay and had an inefficient night. Still, that game came down to the last possession. If you simulated Nevada-Cincinnati Houston-Michigan Loyola-Tennessee UMBC-Virginia and Wichita State-Marshall 100 1000 10000 times the majority and in some cases the overwhelming majority of the time, the team from the higher conference with the slightly or significantly better metrics will win, but especially in the case of Loyola-Tennessee Houston-Michigan and Nevada-Cincinnati, the so-called "underdog" is eminently capable of winning the individual matchup. While I understand the desire to get our shots in at Marshall who is a jerk and the portion of the Wichita State fanbase who could have handled their exit from the MVC more gracefully; and while laughing at how hideously wrong those fans' doom and gloom predictions of the MVC's new reality ended up being is tremendous fun, let us not lose sight of what this tournament has taught us as we seek to construct a narrative that does not exist. Wichita State's loss, which was the kind of loss to a great shooter that can happen to any team, and the somewhat early exit of the AAC does not mark the AAC as overrated, just as the way the top of the MWC dominated the top of the MVC does not guarantee victory for Nevada over Loyola. Instead, the two wins by the A10, the runs by Loyola, Nevada, and Gonzaga, and the numerous narrow losses by mid-majors from all over show that there's some pretty darn high-quality basketball and several very strong teams in this tier of basketball that could perhaps warrant a bit more careful attention before simply handing another bid to a mediocre P5 team. That's the takeaway from this year's tournament: leagues like the MVC MWC WCC MAC and CUSA deserve more respect than they've gotten in recent years; and maybe--just maybe--the tournament would be slightly better with the likes of MTSU WKU Boise State and St Mary's involved instead of Oklahoma Texas UCLA and Arizona State. The tournament needs more mids not fewer. Hopefully, the committee gets this message.

[Dean Wormer]

Unbelievable! Shocker fans are still coming here telling us how much bigger their yanker is than ours. What an insecure group of fans.

All I care is that we picked up Sister Jean and got rid of 3G and Liquored Lynn. The class factor in the MVC did a 180. Now if the rest of the Wichita posters would follow them out the door, that would be swell.

[AndShock]

Generally speaking, the top teams in one tier of conferences can compete with those from the next tier up. It's not entirely inconceivable that the best team in the MVC or the Mountain West can beat the best team in the AAC as happened tonight. One glance at those teams RPIs tells us that. Let's also remember that the MVC's tournament record over the past quarter century is still under .500, despite all if the impressive runs teams have gone on. This underscores how hard it is to win tournament games. That's why teams that can do it consistently get so much respect and get invited to tougher conferences. Anything can happen in a one-off game. Better teams, like Virginia and Wichita State, can be done in by hot shooting. A big reason Houston lost to Michigan--a loss that should surprise no one as the Wolverines won the Big 10 Tournament--was because Rob Gray was just okay and had an inefficient night. Still, that game came down to the last possession. If you simulated Nevada-Cincinnati Houston-Michigan Loyola-Tennessee UMBC-Virginia and Wichita State-Marshall 100 1000 10000 times the majority and in some cases the overwhelming majority of the time, the team from the higher conference with the slightly or significantly better metrics will win, but especially in the case of Loyola-Tennessee Houston-Michigan and Nevada-Cincinnati, the so-called "underdog" is eminently capable of winning the individual matchup. While I understand the desire to get our shots in at Marshall who is a jerk and the portion of the Wichita State fanbase who could have handled their exit from the MVC more gracefully; and while laughing at how hideously wrong those fans' doom and gloom predictions of the MVC's new reality ended up being is tremendous fun, let us not lose sight of what this tournament has taught us as we seek to construct a narrative that does not exist. Wichita State's loss, which was the kind of loss to a great shooter that can happen to any team, and the somewhat early exit of the AAC does not mark the AAC as overrated, just as the way the top of the MWC dominated the top of the MVC does not guarantee victory for Nevada over Loyola. Instead, the two wins by the A10, the runs by Loyola, Nevada, and Gonzaga, and the numerous narrow losses by mid-majors from all over show that there's some pretty darn high-quality basketball and several very strong teams in this tier of basketball that could perhaps warrant a bit more careful attention before simply handing another bid to a mediocre P5 team. That's the takeaway from this year's tournament: leagues like the MVC MWC WCC MAC and CUSA deserve more respect than they've gotten in recent years; and maybe--just maybe--the tournament would be slightly better with the likes of MTSU WKU Boise State and St Mary's involved instead of Oklahoma Texas UCLA and Arizona State. The tournament needs more mids not fewer. Hopefully, the committee gets this message.

[valleyclimber]

VUGrad, to your point of the MVC tourney record being under .500 for the past 25 years, you might want to consider the seeds that various Valley teams have been given during that span. I would not hesitate to say that if you consider the constant under seeding of Valley teams that the MVC has more than outperformed many other conferences.

As far as the WSU and the AAC goes, we'll see in the long run what happens to the Shocker program. If the AAC falls, then the Shockers will be swerling in a not so lofty position. Once again, not too many tears will be shed from the Valley schools.

GO RAMBLERS!!

[VUGrad1314]

I absolutely agree, Valleyclimber. The MVC's tournament performance far outstrips that of most mid-major conferences; I was simply using that fact to show that winning in the tournament is difficult and using one game or a handful of games in a given year to make an argument about conference superiority may not be a best strategy. I also agree that underseeding is rampant especially now. That's a big reason why Loyola and Nevada are meeting right now. It has hurt the MVC some times no doubt but dare I suggest that perhaps it helped these two teams ever so slightly this year? Higher seeds underestimated them and did not learn how dangerous they were until it was too late. Of course, as busted as this bracket has become it's hard to tell.

As for the Shockers, if the AAC gets raided by the remnants of the Big 12, I suspect it will either be the MWC or an MVC return for them (unless the Big East changes its stance on public schools or Wichita State changes its stance on football). I can't see a football hybrid of the B12-BE-CUSA keeping any non-football schools. My guess is that they would look to the MWC, which by then may have added Gonzaga, BYU and New Mexico State. To accommodate the Shockers, the MWC takes in the more desirable\more willing between St Mary's and Grand Canyon.

[MissouriValleyUnite]

No problem with Creighton moving to Big East or Wichita moving to American. Realignment will exist until end of time. Programs taking advantage of lucrative opportunities will exist until end of time. That’s life. Unless your name is Holy Cross and you’re declining the Big East, 350 programs in the country will do the same thing.

I am mixed on the Shockers. I root for them because they brought good memories through the years and always had positive interactions with Shox fans in STL and Carver.

But when they lose to Marshall, I can’t help but think of the keyboard warriors who’ve gone out of their way onto MVC boards to mock and taunt everything about the MVC and their fan bases. I think that is so low - like Gregg Marshall belittling BU publicly for no reason - and I am going to bump the (in)appropriate posts as a reminder of where they came from and the just desserts served to those individuals. Of course, those posters are cowards and nowhere to be found now.

It’s especially hypocritical when many of those same posters complain about how KU fans and Phog.net and P5 fans talk down to Wichita, yet they turn around and do the exact same thing to the Valley and gleefully (and incredibly delusionally) declaring the league’s death certificate. Look, if I cared about who’s “trying” or spending the most money, I’d root for P5 schools and buy apparel at Wal-Mart. I don’t respect people who sneer at the less fortunate and attach self-worth to the team they root for.

But my responses are directed entirely at the assholes. That’s why I only bump their posts. Lance, And, Play Angry, etc. have never been like that and are now thrust into answering for assholes they have nothing to do with. I don’t think the board should be an MVC echo chamber. I like hearing from the rational WSU posters, Murray posters, other schools posters (we’ve even had an SMU and WKU fan pitch in once in awhile), etc. But the trolls will get what they give. Simple.