why isnt there MVFC talk on here?

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Re: why isnt there MVFC talk on here?

Postby arkstfan » July 19th, 2013, 12:28 pm

Lakesbison wrote:UNI
ILL ST
IND ST
MISS ST
SIU

thats 5 schools with football.

NDSU
SDSU

7 schools gets the Missouri Valley a FBS football conference and lots more exposure on ESPN, FSN, etc.



That only works if you pretend the NCAA Division I Manual does not exist.

If you want to be FBS, you must have a bona fide invitation from an FBS conference (ie. a conference with 8 full members who are FBS, or one that had 8 such members and is below that number but still within the two year grace period).

You don't pull out your wand and wave it and become FBS.

If the Valley were to reach the conclusion it wishes to be an FBS league there is only one way to do so.

You have to invite 8 schools to join the conference who are classified FBS today or will be classified FBS by the time they enter.

If FBS is the desire, the first school you contact is New Mexico State. First of all, few would argue they lack the caliber of men's and women's basketball and baseball that would compete well in the Valley. Secondly they are a former member who primarily left over football. Finally they have a relationship with the Sun Belt (good relations particularly with Arkansas State, Louisana, ULM, and Texas State). If you want to know what is happening in the Kremlin it's good have someone who works there telling you. NMSU can tell you effectively what the mood is in within the Sun Belt, which schools have committed leadership and which ones just have a program because it is expected of them.

To make it work, you have to secure multiple Sun Belt schools, the math (as I'll discuss later) isn't going to worth otherwise.

You can reach out to C-USA members but they are collecting units from Memphis and have a million dollar per program television contract with two relatively compact divisions except for the western division trips to El Paso and Birmingham. Raiding any C-USA is unlikely unless there is a catastrophic blow (ie. Big 10 adds two, losing leagues take two from the American, the American adds three out of C-USA to get to 12) or the new TV deal comes in substantially lower. Western Kentucky is certainly hoops oriented enough to be tempted to but they have rival MTSU a short bus ride away and are renewing old rivalries with UAB, Old Dominion, and Charlotte. The Texas schools enjoy two things in life, playing college football and playing college football against other Texas schools. Those clusters make CUSA a hard target.

A MAC raid might seem plausible. But the generally best basketball programs (Kent, Ohio, Miami, Akron, arguably Buffalo) would seem unlikely raid targets, they've got a nice compact set-up and they are quite fond of having the short trip to Cleveland for the tournament each year. Northern Illinois is the only real outlier and having just busted the BCS and having a past history of unsuccessfully leaving the MAC for greener pastures, they seem a tough target as well. Finding a stray to cut out of the herd seems unlikely

That could well mean there is no path to eight except through the Sun Belt. My sense is that Arkansas State and Louisiana are suitably disgruntled to be targets. Texas State sitting between them and NMSU would go where they go.

ULM? I'm not sure ASU and UL are as enthusiastic if ULM is part of the puzzle. They had a great football year but finished last or next to last in 8 of 15 conference sports. They laid an egg in their bowl because they couldn't afford to keep the players on campus to practice over the Christmas break.

South Alabama a historically good basketball and great baseball program would have to be a target. They are in the home town of a key bowl game to pursue. Fairly nice sized city and few realize it but the closest SEC school to Mobile is LSU. They've got a nice niche down there.

After that pickin's get difficult. Troy has historically been good in football but has struggled to really get great crowds. Georgia State is a direct flight from any place Delta flies but they can easily get lost with Georgia Tech across town, Georgia an hour away and the Falcons, Braves and Hawks in town. Georgia Southern and App are without question two of the greatest FCS program of all time, who knows what they do in FBS and neither is easy to reach.

The downside is obvious, most would be below the standard of the Missouri Valley in basketball, but Arkansas State, Louisiana, and South Alabama have made it pretty clear they will invest to compete in whatever league they are in and ought to catch up. All three have been able to draw when they've fielded really good basketball (which hasn't been that often lately). The others are a longer shot.

The upside. Those schools will bring a $1 million each in CFP money (that they won't share with the hoop schools) that means they can afford to waive sharing conference revenue for a number years to pay a substantial entry fee. The Valley gains a permanent seat on the NCAA Board of Directors. The Valley is now in the exclusive club of 10 who are FBS.

Another benefit is gaining a degree of protection from any plans to divide Division I. Just four years ago a draft plan circulated to create NCAA Major Division and the idea was to be in Major you either had to be FBS or be a member of a conference with at least 8 FBS schools. Based on what seems to be swirling right now, I think we are approaching a showdown. The FBS schools are going to deliver an ultimatium:
1. With the reduction of the power of FBS on the Board thanks to the WAC giving up football they are going to want the Board restructured to increase FBS power and to make it harder to over-ride their votes (the stipend had 125 over-ride requests, only 10 from FBS).
2. An increase the minimum membership requirements to force some of the smaller and weaker leagues to spend more by having to offer more sports and more scholarships to try to price some of them out Division I.

If they don't get it, the FBS probably walks.
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Re: why isnt there MVFC talk on here?

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Re: why isnt there MVFC talk on here?

Postby arkstfan » July 31st, 2013, 10:41 pm

Actually have rethought that scenario.

If I were in MVC leadership my goal would be 18 members with 8 being current FBS.

I think rather than NMSU, I'd start with UTEP and Rice.

The Valley is in their wheelhouse for basketball but they would want more Texas members. Rice would be second call. They were one of four privates in a 12 team league now the only one of 14. The Valley would fit their worldview and their baseball program.

Get those two and you've got your pick of UTSA, North Texas, Louisiana Tech, Louisiana, Arkansas State, South Alabama, and Troy to get to 8 and maybe have opened the possibility of Northern Illinois, Ball State and maybe a few other MAC.
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Re: why isnt there MVFC talk on here?

Postby AngryShock » August 2nd, 2013, 7:02 am

That would really diminish the basketball side of things.
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Re: why isnt there MVFC talk on here?

Postby unipanther99 » August 2nd, 2013, 9:12 am

arkstfan wrote:Actually have rethought that scenario.

If I were in MVC leadership my goal would be 18 members with 8 being current FBS.

I think rather than NMSU, I'd start with UTEP and Rice.

The Valley is in their wheelhouse for basketball but they would want more Texas members. Rice would be second call. They were one of four privates in a 12 team league now the only one of 14. The Valley would fit their worldview and their baseball program.

Get those two and you've got your pick of UTSA, North Texas, Louisiana Tech, Louisiana, Arkansas State, South Alabama, and Troy to get to 8 and maybe have opened the possibility of Northern Illinois, Ball State and maybe a few other MAC.


No offense, but that sounds like a real mess of a conference.
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Re: why isnt there MVFC talk on here?

Postby arkstfan » August 14th, 2013, 9:02 am

Cost of doing business if you are concerned about a breakaway or losing members who have FBS aspirations.
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Re: why isnt there MVFC talk on here?

Postby KC MVC FAN » March 12th, 2014, 3:50 pm

[quote="arkstfan"]Cost of doing business if you are concerned about a breakaway or losing members who have FBS aspirations.[/quote]

A whole series of good informative posts and info. Thanks.

Don't ever get caught in the trap that the MVC is interested in football. They are interest only in BB. They are running scared that WSU will withdraw from the conference and the conference will drop below the whale dodo. Most have not got over Creighton leaving the conference.
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Re: why isnt there MVFC talk on here?

Postby Lakesbison » June 11th, 2014, 10:24 pm

NDSU is coming off 3rd title with a 45-2 record and is bringing back 7 starting defensive players, a 1000+ yard RB and WR and a 6 6 215 QB with a cannon.

NDSU should win the MVFC again and probably favored to win its 4th straight title.

its seriously time for NDSU to be FBS.
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Re: why isnt there MVFC talk on here?

Postby PantherSigEp » June 26th, 2014, 6:27 pm

Go away.
[Insert snappy comeback]
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Re: why isnt there MVFC talk on here?

Postby underdawg » July 6th, 2014, 12:25 pm

Anyone know when the MVFC Media Day is?
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Re: why isnt there MVFC talk on here?

Postby GrandpaBear » October 29th, 2015, 9:26 am

I think the Valley quit playing football after the national title game. And no one noticed.
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Re: why isnt there MVFC talk on here?

Postby mvfcfan » April 1st, 2016, 9:32 am

I think going FBS is dumb. At least at the FCS level you can compete for a national championship. Unless you're in a power 5 conference there is no reason to be FBS, because you will never get to be in the (joke of a) playoff at the end of the year.

I remember a few years ago the Sun Belt was interested in adding Indiana State for football. We said "no thanks" thankfully. (I'm an INST fan by the way.) If INST went anywhere I'd like to see us join the OVC so that we could reestablish our rivalry with Eastern Illinois.
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