NDSU/SDSU to MVC asap.

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Re: NDSU/SDSU to MVC asap.

Postby Shocktop42 » April 12th, 2017, 9:31 am

JBoss8393 wrote:I've been a fan of the Valley since 1987 when I moved to Normal, married into a Redbird family and became one myself when I got my master's. I also attended USD when it was in the old North Central Conference. I always liked that because it was a pretty close knit group. You had USD, SDSU, UND, NDSU, Morningside, Augustana, UN-Omaha and Northern Colorado. It was an I-29 league with great rivalries.

It's stings that the valley has lost Tulsa, Creighton and Wichita State since I began following it. Evansville was a nice fit, Loyola is questionable decision and needs a little time. But for the next round, I absolutely do not think the Dakota schools are the answer. I've given this some thought and looked at the Midwestern Mid-Major Conferences and think five conferences could be impacted by what the Valley does.

I love the 10 team league but I think that is short sighted with all the moving going. I like the idea of expanding to 12 and adding Valparaiso, Belmont and Murray State. It creates an even 6-6 public to private. Murray State can move its football program to the MVFC and create a 12 team league there as well. You get a new media market in Nashville and travel partners. UMKC would be a nice fit, but there just isn't enough success there to grab it.

The conferences I see being affected besides the Valley are OVC, Horizon, Summit and WAC.

So here's my thoughts: (Bold=Scholarship FCS Schools/Italic= Non Scholarship FCS Schools)

New MVC
Illinois State
Bradley
Indiana State
Evansville
Northern Iowa
Drake
Southern Illinois
Missouri State

Loyola
Valparaiso (from the Horizon)
Murray State (From the OVC)
Belmont (from the OVC)

New OVC:
Morehead State
Jacksonville State
Tennessee State
Tennessee Tech
Eastern Kentucky
Tennessee-Martin
Southeast Missouri
Austin Peay
Eastern Illinois

SIU-Edwardsville

New Horizon
Oakland
Detroit
Green Bay
Milwaukee
Cleveland State
Youngstown State
Wright State
Northern Kentucky
UIC
PU Fort Wayne (from the Summit)
IUPU Indianapolis (from the Summit)

New Summit
NDSU
UND
SDSU
USD

Omaha
UM-Kansas City (from the WAC)
Denver
Utah Valley (from the WAC)
Chicago State (from the WAC)
Western Illinois
Oral Roberts
Texas-Rio Grande Valley (from the WAC)

MVFC
West Div
USD
SDSU
UND
NDSU
Northern Iowa
Missouri State

East Div
Illinois State
Southern Illinois
Murray State
Youngstown State
Indiana State
Western Illinois

I could also see Western Illinois moving to the OVC, being a travel partner for Eastern Illinois, creating a 9-team football league and 11-team basketball league.

The WAC would then need to add at least three schools from what's left over or dissolve. It's been on a long, slow death spiral since the super conference blew up back in the 90s.

With these groupings, you get some pretty compact conferences and bus rather than air travel, outside of the Summit having to fly to Salt Lake, Denver, and San Antonio/Brownsville.

Time will tell.


Seems to make sense but i'm not sure that those in the MVFC would be interested in Murray State so that they would split into divisions. Seems to me that the west division would be WAY more competitive than the east division.
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Re: NDSU/SDSU to MVC asap.

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Re: NDSU/SDSU to MVC asap.

Postby Redhawk » April 12th, 2017, 10:12 am

Shocktop42 wrote:MVFC
West Div
USD
SDSU
UND
NDSU
Northern Iowa
Missouri State

East Div
Illinois State
Southern Illinois
Murray State
Youngstown State
Indiana State
Western Illinois



Seems to make sense but i'm not sure that those in the MVFC would be interested in Murray State so that they would split into divisions. Seems to me that the west division would be WAY more competitive than the east division.


You are correct about the strengths of the divisions top to bottom but Youngstown St just played for the National Championship last season. Illinois St was in the National Championship game in 2014 and tied
NDSU for the MVFC title in 2014 & 2015.

Five of these current & future MVFC teams made the playoffs last year. The split in the new division
format would have been 3 West (ND, NDSU, SDSU) and 2 East (ISUr, YSU)
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Re: NDSU/SDSU to MVC asap.

Postby MOST » April 12th, 2017, 4:53 pm

Congrats to JBoss8393.

This is really good work. Creates more localized/regional lay downs of middle US mid-major conferences.

With your pleasure I would like to offer a few changes:

New MVC --10 teams
Illinois State
Bradley
Indiana State
Evansville
Southern Illinois
Loyola
Valparaiso (from the Horizon)
Murray State (From the OVC)
Belmont (from the OVC)
Milwaukee

New OVC: 11 Teams
Morehead State
Jacksonville State
Tennessee State
Tennessee Tech
Eastern Kentucky
Tennessee-Martin
Southeast Missouri
Austin Peay
Eastern Illinois
SIU-Edwardsville
Chicago State

New Horizon--10
Oakland
Detroit
Green Bay
Cleveland State
Youngstown State
Wright State
Northern Kentucky
U IC
IPU Fort Wayne
IUPU Indianapolis

New Summit--10
NDSU
U. ND
SDSU
U. SD
Omaha
UM-Kansas City
Northern Iowa
Missouri State
ARk Little Rock
Drake

New WAC- 10 Teams
CSU Bakersfield
Oral Roberts
Texas-Rio Grande Valley
TAMU Corpus Christi
Denver
Utah Valley
Northern Arizona
Southern Utah
Grand Canyon

SOUTHLAND
+++N. Mex. St. Only place I see for N. Mex State unless they can get in the Mountain West.

Did not fool with FB conferences/relationships!

Maintains 5 balanced conferences, 3 conferences east of the Missisippi, 1 conference west of the Mississippi, 1 conference in the west/SW. More localized and regional, reduces travel distances, all but the WAC are school bus conferences.

If there was another D1 west of the Mississippi to replace Drake I would recommend keeping the New Summit public and moving Drake to the New MVC with other private schools

No conference is perfect but think people are thinking more about structure, travel distances and costs. Would be better if CAl State Bakersfield could get in the Big West (is not the Big West a BB only conference---would require all travel with in California borders).
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Re: NDSU/SDSU to MVC asap.

Postby BCPanther » April 12th, 2017, 6:37 pm

MOST wrote:Congrats to JBoss8393.

This is really good work. Creates more localized/regional lay downs of middle US mid-major conferences.

With your pleasure I would like to offer a few changes:

New MVC --10 teams
Illinois State
Bradley
Indiana State
Evansville
Southern Illinois
Loyola
Valparaiso (from the Horizon)
Murray State (From the OVC)
Belmont (from the OVC)
Milwaukee

New OVC: 11 Teams
Morehead State
Jacksonville State
Tennessee State
Tennessee Tech
Eastern Kentucky
Tennessee-Martin
Southeast Missouri
Austin Peay
Eastern Illinois
SIU-Edwardsville
Chicago State

New Horizon--10
Oakland
Detroit
Green Bay
Cleveland State
Youngstown State
Wright State
Northern Kentucky
U IC
IPU Fort Wayne
IUPU Indianapolis

New Summit--10
NDSU
U. ND
SDSU
U. SD
Omaha
UM-Kansas City
Northern Iowa
Missouri State
ARk Little Rock
Drake

New WAC- 10 Teams
CSU Bakersfield
Oral Roberts
Texas-Rio Grande Valley
TAMU Corpus Christi
Denver
Utah Valley
Northern Arizona
Southern Utah
Grand Canyon

SOUTHLAND
+++N. Mex. St. Only place I see for N. Mex State unless they can get in the Mountain West.

Did not fool with FB conferences/relationships!

Maintains 5 balanced conferences, 3 conferences east of the Missisippi, 1 conference west of the Mississippi, 1 conference in the west/SW. More localized and regional, reduces travel distances, all but the WAC are school bus conferences.

If there was another D1 west of the Mississippi to replace Drake I would recommend keeping the New Summit public and moving Drake to the New MVC with other private schools

No conference is perfect but think people are thinking more about structure, travel distances and costs. Would be better if CAl State Bakersfield could get in the Big West (is not the Big West a BB only conference---would require all travel with in California borders).


That's literally the worst thing I've ever seen. WTF would UNI and MSU want to do that? I mean it's basically the old North Central Conference that UNI couldn't get out of fast enough 40 years ago. And you're randomly taking teams from conferences that have nothing to do with this realignment.

Stop. Just stop.
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Re: NDSU/SDSU to MVC asap.

Postby MOST » April 12th, 2017, 7:04 pm

:Violin: :Violin: :Violin: :Violin:
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Re: NDSU/SDSU to MVC asap.

Postby jwa123 » April 12th, 2017, 7:31 pm

Play your violins all you want but BCPanther is correct - ain't gonna happen.
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Re: NDSU/SDSU to MVC asap.

Postby MOST » April 12th, 2017, 7:37 pm

BCPanther wrote: :Violin: :Violin: :Violin: :Violin: :Violin:
That's literally the worst thing I've ever seen. WTF would UNI and MSU want to do that? I mean it's basically the old North Central Conference that UNI couldn't get out of fast enough 40 years ago. And you're randomly taking teams from conferences that have nothing to do with this realignment.

Stop. Just stop.


I am advocating consolidating conference into more localized/regional, efficient units. And, what I propose for the New Summit is a lot different than the North Central 40 years ago. I think SDSU, SDU and NDSU all made the quarterfinals of the FCS play offs. In BB SDSU and ND U made the NCAA and and SD U made the NIT, and NEB Omaha looked exceptional in the Summit Tournament. All 3 teams looked as good or better than any MVC team except WSU (and maybe Ill State).

UNI and MO State will elevate, make the conference better.

The MVC is getting old and tired. If the MVC does not do something drastic it will drop from the # 12 ranking 4 or 5 places to #17 or #18 to trail the Sun Belt, the Mid-American, the Southern, and the Metro Atlantic Athletic. Hopefully a Shuffle of teams between conferences will energize BB teams to do/be
better.
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Re: NDSU/SDSU to MVC asap.

Postby Rogers101 » April 12th, 2017, 8:30 pm

MOST wrote:Congrats to JBoss8393.

This is really good work. Creates more localized/regional lay downs of middle US mid-major conferences.

With your pleasure I would like to offer a few changes:

New MVC --10 teams
Illinois State
Bradley
Indiana State
Evansville
Southern Illinois
Loyola
Valparaiso (from the Horizon)
Murray State (From the OVC)
Belmont (from the OVC)
Milwaukee

New OVC: 11 Teams
Morehead State
Jacksonville State
Tennessee State
Tennessee Tech
Eastern Kentucky
Tennessee-Martin
Southeast Missouri
Austin Peay
Eastern Illinois
SIU-Edwardsville
Chicago State

New Horizon--10
Oakland
Detroit
Green Bay
Cleveland State
Youngstown State
Wright State
Northern Kentucky
U IC
IPU Fort Wayne
IUPU Indianapolis

New Summit--10
NDSU
U. ND
SDSU
U. SD
Omaha
UM-Kansas City
Northern Iowa
Missouri State
ARk Little Rock
Drake

New WAC- 10 Teams
CSU Bakersfield
Oral Roberts
Texas-Rio Grande Valley
TAMU Corpus Christi
Denver
Utah Valley
Northern Arizona
Southern Utah
Grand Canyon

SOUTHLAND
+++N. Mex. St. Only place I see for N. Mex State unless they can get in the Mountain West.

Did not fool with FB conferences/relationships!

Maintains 5 balanced conferences, 3 conferences east of the Missisippi, 1 conference west of the Mississippi, 1 conference in the west/SW. More localized and regional, reduces travel distances, all but the WAC are school bus conferences.

If there was another D1 west of the Mississippi to replace Drake I would recommend keeping the New Summit public and moving Drake to the New MVC with other private schools

No conference is perfect but think people are thinking more about structure, travel distances and costs. Would be better if CAl State Bakersfield could get in the Big West (is not the Big West a BB only conference---would require all travel with in California borders).



Holy s***... That's ugly..
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Re: NDSU/SDSU to MVC asap.

Postby TheAsianSensation » April 12th, 2017, 9:06 pm

MOST wrote:
BCPanther wrote: :Violin: :Violin: :Violin: :Violin: :Violin:
That's literally the worst thing I've ever seen. WTF would UNI and MSU want to do that? I mean it's basically the old North Central Conference that UNI couldn't get out of fast enough 40 years ago. And you're randomly taking teams from conferences that have nothing to do with this realignment.

Stop. Just stop.


I am advocating consolidating conference into more localized/regional, efficient units. And, what I propose for the New Summit is a lot different than the North Central 40 years ago. I think SDSU, SDU and NDSU all made the quarterfinals of the FCS play offs. In BB SDSU and ND U made the NCAA and and SD U made the NIT, and NEB Omaha looked exceptional in the Summit Tournament. All 3 teams looked as good or better than any MVC team except WSU (and maybe Ill State).

UNI and MO State will elevate, make the conference better.

The MVC is getting old and tired. If the MVC does not do something drastic it will drop from the # 12 ranking 4 or 5 places to #17 or #18 to trail the Sun Belt, the Mid-American, the Southern, and the Metro Atlantic Athletic. Hopefully a Shuffle of teams between conferences will energize BB teams to do/be
better.

Without diving too deeply into the math, there's an old thread somewhere around here talking about RPI rankings and such. The consensus is that we're in no real danger of losing our spot as a top 12 conference without Wichita. The bottom line is that while we lose touch with the A-10 and Mountain West, we're not going to drop down into the next tier of conferences.

The MVC is exactly the type of conference that should EXPAND its borders for the sake of building basketball power. Geographic consolidation is exactly, specifically, the enemy of this conference.
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Re: NDSU/SDSU to MVC asap.

Postby uniftw » April 12th, 2017, 9:28 pm

TheAsianSensation wrote:
MOST wrote:
BCPanther wrote: :Violin: :Violin: :Violin: :Violin: :Violin:
That's literally the worst thing I've ever seen. WTF would UNI and MSU want to do that? I mean it's basically the old North Central Conference that UNI couldn't get out of fast enough 40 years ago. And you're randomly taking teams from conferences that have nothing to do with this realignment.

Stop. Just stop.


I am advocating consolidating conference into more localized/regional, efficient units. And, what I propose for the New Summit is a lot different than the North Central 40 years ago. I think SDSU, SDU and NDSU all made the quarterfinals of the FCS play offs. In BB SDSU and ND U made the NCAA and and SD U made the NIT, and NEB Omaha looked exceptional in the Summit Tournament. All 3 teams looked as good or better than any MVC team except WSU (and maybe Ill State).

UNI and MO State will elevate, make the conference better.

The MVC is getting old and tired. If the MVC does not do something drastic it will drop from the # 12 ranking 4 or 5 places to #17 or #18 to trail the Sun Belt, the Mid-American, the Southern, and the Metro Atlantic Athletic. Hopefully a Shuffle of teams between conferences will energize BB teams to do/be
better.

Without diving too deeply into the math, there's an old thread somewhere around here talking about RPI rankings and such. The consensus is that we're in no real danger of losing our spot as a top 12 conference without Wichita. The bottom line is that while we lose touch with the A-10 and Mountain West, we're not going to drop down into the next tier of conferences.

The MVC is exactly the type of conference that should EXPAND its borders for the sake of building basketball power. Geographic consolidation is exactly, specifically, the enemy of this conference.

KenPom has us 10th - believe it or not - as of now in the preseason rankings for next year.

So....

It's why I'm not entirely hating the idea of 9 and focusing on making everyone better
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