Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Discuss the MVC hoops season here.

Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby DoubleJayAlum » April 18th, 2017, 8:33 am

TheAsianSensation wrote:Valpo might get St Louis'd out of the MVC. (St Louis is allegedly the next candidate for the Big East, but don't have a chance as the Big East can't find a good 12th team. I wonder if we don't add an 11th team because we can't find a solid option to be the 12th team)


The Big East not adding St Louis U has nothing to do with not being able to find a 12th team; the reason SLU doesn't receive any consideration currently is because they suck at basketball. At the time the C7 broke off and formed the new league, SLU (the university, not the basketball program) was also headed by a person with an insanely huge ego that could not work and play well with others. While he has finally departed, they currently have some significant financial issues, that in conjunction with their poor basketball program, leaves them far off the radar at the moment.

If UConn wanted in the Big East (and found something to do with football or eliminated it entirely) the Big East would add them in a New York minute, willingly going with 11 schools and eliminating the current private school only structure. Short of that, I think the Big East is content just waiting to see what happens when the Big 12's TV contract comes up for renewal in a few years.
User avatar
DoubleJayAlum
MVC Hall Of Famer
MVC Hall Of Famer
 
Posts: 2300
Joined: August 5th, 2010, 12:05 pm

Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Sponsor

Sponsor
 

Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby Redhawk » April 18th, 2017, 8:38 am

uniftw wrote:
It's a stretch, and requires intentionally alienating the Summit members, which is why it's a stretch, but it is an option that should be looked at.


If we add Valpo and Murray State we will be alienating the Horizon League and OVC.
So why not piss off the Summit at the same time? If we truly are their "big brother" isn't that
what we are supposed to do?
Redhawk
All MVC
All MVC
 
Posts: 464
Joined: November 13th, 2015, 7:41 am

Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby uniftw » April 18th, 2017, 9:03 am

Redhawk wrote:
uniftw wrote:
It's a stretch, and requires intentionally alienating the Summit members, which is why it's a stretch, but it is an option that should be looked at.


If we add Valpo and Murray State we will be alienating the Horizon League and OVC.
So why not piss off the Summit at the same time? If we truly are their "big brother" isn't that
what we are supposed to do?

Sure.

However, there is something to be said for the strength, and 4 decade long history of the MVFC/Gateway to be a "welcoming" home for FCS programs in the upper midwest that didn't directly step on anyone's toes.

When you are clearly the big dog you can afford to step on toes and put fire near bridges. When you might be the biggest dog (but maybe not clearly the "big dog"), it's best to take a more diplomatic appraoch.
uniftw
MVC Hall Of Famer
MVC Hall Of Famer
 
Posts: 2408
Joined: January 20th, 2011, 9:01 pm

Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby tribecalledquest » April 18th, 2017, 9:47 am

TheAsianSensation wrote:This is shades of the Big East breakup with 8 basketball schools and 8 football schools.

Basketball runs the place, and if the MVCF has to absorb Murray St...that's not exactly a choice for the football guys. If they want, the Summit can go start their own football, with blackjack and hookers.

But of course...then Murray St wouldn't have a home for the football team if they move to the MVC.

I think the talk between the MVC and MVCF needs to happen, if it hasn't already. Both need to lay out their long-term plans, so that the MVC can change the plans of the MVCF since this is a basketball-first conference.


The MVC and MVCF are basically the same people. They don't operate in separate universes.
tribecalledquest
MVC Hall Of Famer
MVC Hall Of Famer
 
Posts: 2399
Joined: August 4th, 2010, 10:57 am

Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby Veritas » April 19th, 2017, 6:06 am

tribecalledquest wrote:
TheAsianSensation wrote:This is shades of the Big East breakup with 8 basketball schools and 8 football schools.

Basketball runs the place, and if the MVCF has to absorb Murray St...that's not exactly a choice for the football guys. If they want, the Summit can go start their own football, with blackjack and hookers.

But of course...then Murray St wouldn't have a home for the football team if they move to the MVC.

I think the talk between the MVC and MVCF needs to happen, if it hasn't already. Both need to lay out their long-term plans, so that the MVC can change the plans of the MVCF since this is a basketball-first conference.


The MVC and MVCF are basically the same people. They don't operate in separate universes.


If that's true, then the negative comment made by the MVCF commissioner towards WSU's suggestion of putting a football team in the conference along with keeping the other sports in the MVC, should raise questions about her ability and judgement.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.inforum. ... ates%3Famp
Veritas
MVC Role Player
MVC Role Player
 
Posts: 112
Joined: August 9th, 2010, 6:27 pm

Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby unipanther99 » April 19th, 2017, 8:48 am



Why should she be supportive of a school wanting to use her conference as a jumping point to another conference? Her job is to maintain a stable, high-quality FCS conference. Not an incubator for schools with FBS aspirations. A school who would then leave the flagship all-sport conference as well.

There are reasons to criticize Patty, but I don't think this comment is one of those reasons.
User avatar
unipanther99
MVCfans.com
MVCfans.com
 
Posts: 1711
Joined: August 4th, 2010, 3:18 pm
Location: Iowa City

Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby Veritas » April 19th, 2017, 9:27 am

unipanther99 wrote:


Why should she be supportive of a school wanting to use her conference as a jumping point to another conference? Her job is to maintain a stable, high-quality FCS conference. Not an incubator for schools with FBS aspirations. A school who would then leave the flagship all-sport conference as well.

There are reasons to criticize Patty, but I don't think this comment is one of those reasons.


You are misleading. You didn't include the comment from AsianSensation to which I replied.

If the MVC and MVFC are ultimately the same, her comment expedited the departure of WSU. If she would have responded with a positive remarks on the inclusion of WSU football, who knows what could have happened 3-5-10 years from now. However, her negative remarks were the final nail in the coffin.
Are you better now as a conference?
Veritas
MVC Role Player
MVC Role Player
 
Posts: 112
Joined: August 9th, 2010, 6:27 pm

Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby unipanther99 » April 19th, 2017, 9:33 am

Veritas wrote:
You are misleading. You didn't include the comment from AsianSensation to which I replied.

If the MVC and MVFC are ultimately the same, her comment expedited the departure of WSU. If she would have responded with a positive remarks on the inclusion of WSU football, who knows what could have happened 3-5-10 years from now. However, her negative remarks were the final nail in the coffin.
Are you better now as a conference?


Are you suggesting WSU would have said no to the AAC if Patty Viverito had been nicer to WSU about football?
User avatar
unipanther99
MVCfans.com
MVCfans.com
 
Posts: 1711
Joined: August 4th, 2010, 3:18 pm
Location: Iowa City

Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby TheAsianSensation » April 19th, 2017, 9:40 am

uniftw wrote:
I think most/all of us on this site - or Valley Talk back in the day - saw what was happening with the Big East, and then what happened with the Big East, and knew the day was coming for us but hoped the league would do something to ensure that it didn't. Well, the league didn't do anything. The "best" move right now is for the MVC to absorb the MVFC. Make it a conference sponsored sport. It protects the current MVFC/MVC schools. Make a promise to YSU that they will always have a home as an affiliate member. That keeps the league at 7 if the Summit wants to do their own thing at some point. The ensured safety of the football schools is what is needed. Once that is ensured the mission of the MVC can be made as a basketball run league that sponsors football at the FCS level. If the Summit teams don't like it then they can form their 3 time zone monster league and try to attain a bid or they can deal with the fact they have a stable home for football.


Pretty good breakdown of the various options (that I deleted in this quote for space considerations). I'm not as big a fan of having the MVC absorb the MVCF because of a couple lingering questions:
1) Would NDSU go for it? They obviously are big dog in the MVCF, but being an affiliate member of a conference in one sport is usually not preferred for a big dog
2) It brings slightly more complicated expansion decisions. For example, Murray wouldn't be able to leave their football in the OVC if they join us, while under the current format, I believe they'd be allowed to. The Dakota schools would have a louder voice in expansion decisions for basketball than they currently do

I do wonder if the status of MVCF as a relatively big dog in FCS makes things tricky. Anything that gives the Dakotas a louder voice in the expansion discussion is risky, IMO.
http://bracketball.blogspot.com/ A national version of the world-famous TAS Bracketology. Spread the word
TheAsianSensation
MVCfans.com
MVCfans.com
 
Posts: 1175
Joined: April 6th, 2012, 7:23 am

Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby uniftw » April 19th, 2017, 10:18 am

TheAsianSensation wrote:
Pretty good breakdown of the various options (that I deleted in this quote for space considerations). I'm not as big a fan of having the MVC absorb the MVCF because of a couple lingering questions:
1) Would NDSU go for it? They obviously are big dog in the MVCF, but being an affiliate member of a conference in one sport is usually not preferred for a big dog
2) It brings slightly more complicated expansion decisions. For example, Murray wouldn't be able to leave their football in the OVC if they join us, while under the current format, I believe they'd be allowed to. The Dakota schools would have a louder voice in expansion decisions for basketball than they currently do

I do wonder if the status of MVCF as a relatively big dog in FCS makes things tricky. Anything that gives the Dakotas a louder voice in the expansion discussion is risky, IMO.

1. Doesn't matter if NDSU would go for it. The MVC (I'm going to include YSU as part of the MVC schools from now on in this post) out number Summit schools. NDSU has zero other options right now - or any time soon. They can be the big dog all they want, DGAF. They can be an affiliate MVFC member, like all schools, or be an affiliate in the MVC. Litearlly nothing changes for them in terms of how they are set up. They might feel like someone is out to get them, but that's their own issue.

Remember, it's not the MVC starting football and inviting all of these schools. It would be the MVFC ceding power to the MVC. There is precedent for that before - see the CAA/Yankee/A10 history. All that would change is that Patty would work for the MVC in the football capacity - not the MVFC. Or Patty gives control to Doug Elgin (scary as well) and keeps control of the PFL.

2. It doesn't really complicate expansion decisions. The MVC wouldn't be taking over control this year anyway (in this hypothetical). Murray State is going to have to stay a member of the OVC, no matter what, this year. It's impossible for both conferences to make it work this late. MVFC schedules are set through 2019, which is why UND isn't joining until 2020. MVC takes over control of the MVFC doesn't change any of that, it just changes the "who is in control". Maybe the name goes from MVFC to just MVC. If the OVC really throws a fit then the conference redoes 2018 and 2019s schedules. It would suck, but so be it.

It's clearly not as simple as I laid out, but message boards are for over simplifying. It could work. The biggest thing, as you said, is keeping the Summit schools from being able to take control. If they don't like it and want to try to start their own, so be it. I guess it'll suck to lose 2 quality programs in NDSU and SDSDU and then a long time rival like WIU, but I'd rather focus on the MVC being healthy and competitive long term than my football league. I think that's the story you'd hear from UNI, ISUr, ISUb, SIU and probably even MSU.

Protecting those 5, plus Murray State should they join, should be priority #1 after adding a quality team or two for depth. If that means folding the football league into the all sports conference, it should be considered. Again, the Summit teams don't have enough football members to start their own conference, and their isn't much precedent for the NCAA to allow them to start a new league and get an automtic bid to the playoffs simply because their league office changed hands, but nothing on the day to day side of it. Even if they allowed it they are going to have to create a 13-14 team all sports conference stretching from Indiana to Fargo to Oklahoma to both sides of Utah to do it. A 13-14 team 1 big league isn't a good idea. NCAA money gets spread real thin real quick in that. Barely enough to offset travel.
uniftw
MVC Hall Of Famer
MVC Hall Of Famer
 
Posts: 2408
Joined: January 20th, 2011, 9:01 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Missouri Valley Conference Basketball

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: BEARZ77 and 49 guests